S. 1 Ep. 23 – What It Means To Be A World Changer

Taylorr: In today’s episode, we are chatting with Chris West founder of Video Narrative, the leading video production and branding company for professional speakers. Chris is with us chatting about what it means to be a world changer and how you can position yourself as the expert in your niche. He gives us some awesome tips and tactical tools to help us better communicate our message and outlines the importance of a strong digital presence. This is a jam-packed episode with loads of golden nuggets, you’ll certainly want to stick around until the end, and we hope you liked this one. And we are live. Chris, welcome to the show, man. It’s great to have you.

Chris: It’s so good to be with both of you.

Austin: Always an honor, Chris, we have a good time….

Chris: We do.

Austin: Generally speaking. [Cross-talk 01:00].

Chris:  Especially if we’re all together in person.

Taylorr: Yeah.

Chris: Especially when we’re all together in person at a conference that is [cross-talk 01:08].

Austin: Hopefully, that comes back to be a reality in the near future. I… [cross-talk 01:10].

Chris: I’m going.

Austin: Restaurant talk.

Taylorr: We always like to kick the show off with your background. How did you get into the world of professional speakers and helping experts craft better stories? What was that journey for you like and how did you land here?

Chris: Well, it’s a great story simply because I didn’t know much about this world of speaking in any way. A person locally was asking me to do work on her high-end portrait photography and she happened to be doing a photo session with a speaker. And I’m doing a video for this photographer and the speaker is like, oh, you know what? I’ve got an event next week; you should come over and film it. And I’m like, no problem. I came over and filmed it, he’s like, could you put this together in a video? I didn’t know what speaker videos were or weren’t, but I do know that every video should have a story, you should tell one singular story. And he was telling a story about LinkedIn and leveraging it. And so, I actually went right after and I filmed a graduation. I just snuck in, I know how to do these things better now, but I was in graduate school, it was [inaudible 02:12].

And I filmed the graduation and then I created this storyline around what’s possible with people when they graduate now into job markets, with things like LinkedIn and it got reviewed at a National Speakers Association, like an influence conference is one of the best videos that year, but it broke the mold for what they were saying for people to do. All of a sudden, I started getting calls by professional speakers and the first speaker to call me, told me the best story ever. He’s like, I know I want to be a speaker and I had this incredible job, I helped build Build-A-Bear Workshop, I was the sixth person hired, I’ve helped scale it from 40 stores to 400 and I went out on my own, I pulled out my 401k, my wife thinks I’m crazy, but I’m doing this and I’m going to become a professional speaker. I’m like, that is so awesome. That is so cool that people like this exist. And I’m like, so then what do you speak about he’s like, I want to teach people about how rock climbing is like business.

Taylorr: Oh boy. 

Chris: In my head, I’m like, that’s never going to work. And he’d been traveling around the world for years, doing epic mountain climbs, such incredible things and it’s the same stuff he was doing when he was running IT for all of Build-A-Bear Workshop is that they were constantly dealing with challenges and the way that they had to go through it was the same way that he looked at a mountain. And once I heard it from him, it sounded awesome. I joined him down in San Francisco and we climbed El Cap together, not the, the mountain itself, like from start to finish, but you can go up the back, you can repel up the back or ascend up the back and then you can repel the top two pitches and we filmed, 7,800 feet up as I filmed him. And I thought, if this is what it’s like to work with speakers, I’m in.

And it’s so funny. Cause one last story with this, another speaker was in that session. He called me at the same time he had formerly worked for Course Light as a brand manager. And I learned in his keynote how Course Light had decided one day in 2005. What if we said, we’re the coldest beer? And that seems so silly because you can’t say you, the coldest beer it’s like saying you’re the best speaker, it doesn’t work. But they were saying, well, what if we said that internally? What would our marketing look like? And the next year after they changed everything their sales grew by 5% in like $150 million market at the time, it was a lot of money. No, that that was 150 million difference. It was just credible what happened after that. And as I’m watching this story and I’m thinking about the first two speakers, I just did work with.

I’m like there’s no one in the industry who really owns the video and the storytelling side for speaking. And there was two, but they were pretty poor quality. I was like what if I like became the coldest or the best in this, in the entire speaker industry? And I wrote on a piece of paper at the time when I started doing this, I just said five years from now, I’ll be the most trusted name for video production in the speaker industry. And then I made all my decisions based on that from that day forward, anytime someone called me and they weren’t a professional speaker or consultant, someone who wanted to make the world a better place and who are doing that kind of work. I said no to the work. And I said no to a lot of money.

The next day after I made that decision a lawyer from a law firm called and said, we’d love for you to do video work for our entire firm. And I said, I only work with professional speakers. And he was like, that’s not what your website says, and you don’t have anything about speakers on your website, I’m like, yeah, it changed yesterday, because it felt like a test to me. And with three years later I saw this huge bump, the work. Meaning that it was kind of good for a while, but then it was like, I couldn’t even keep up with the work. And I had to hire person after person and in three and a half years in the team was up to 11 people. Right. And it was because I made one decision and the reason, I’m sharing this story, not just my backstory is I believe it’s the secret for all speakers is they have to choose one category, one distinction, one thing they’re known for, and it feels limiting.

But when you do it right, you choose one thing and then you write it out and you make all your decisions based on that. It there’s this compound effect that comes into play and after a while it clicks and just one day you can’t keep up with the work. And there’s a lot of speakers who are experiencing that and there’s a lot that aren’t and use the ones who are experiencing it. It was because they made the decision three, four or five years ago and it’s just the fastest way to the most growth to make that decision. Yeah, that’s how it started.

Austin: Such a cool story. What cool people to work with too? Oh my gosh. Like your first project. Yeah, we just climbed El Cap and did some recording, it’s 7,800 feet. That’s wild. I can see why you were drawn to this space after having that experience. I don’t know [cross-talk 07:12]

Chris: Yeah, we filmed the next l five speakers were like the most boring. I didn’t spend all my time in conference rooms, the same hotel feel every week. I started really thinking about this was a good idea.

Austin: Well, you stuck with it. And it’s amazing what you built today. In fact, that actually sort of segues me into the next question I’ve got for you. You set that goal when you started to be the most trusted name in the speaking industry or storytelling. I probably didn’t phrase that as eloquently as you would have, but I think that we can all agree that you hit that goal, video narrative has the name that it does for a reason. However, since then, obviously you’ve continued to grow and the company has an ethos now around it. And I know for having worked with you that the niche is storytelling for world changers, which seems like a natural progression as you’ve gotten more and more specific with the types of people that you feel like you were best able to serve. But storytelling for world changers. I mean, that’s a really specific phrase and I know you say it all the time so can you sort of define what that means to you and specifically that term world changer?

Chris: Well, we all want to make the world a better place in whatever we do and why I work with speakers is that I very rarely work with someone who’s like, I do this just because it makes me feel good. A lot of people, it makes them feel good and we all know a lot of very egotistical speakers who love just being able to say a lot, but most of the time it’s people who’ve had this experience and because they’ve gone through that true heartache of losing a child or being trapped or being paralyzed, or going through years of learning, how to run and grow a company and then selling it or whatever they’ve gone through, they’ve been through the crucible of life and now they’re on the other side and it’s like, I want to share this with the world.

In my mind, we call those people world changers. They feel so compelled to share their story, that they want to make the world a better place. But if you want to make the world a better place, and if you want to change the world, the only way to do it to get buy-in is to tell a compelling story. And we see this happen all the time where people give all these facts and it becomes data and they give all these reasons why things should happen and you could just replace all that with one singular story and people will buy in completely. And so, they have to be able to tell a great story with their brand and so often people are telling a story about themselves and it’s very hard to know how do I get far enough outside of myself to see the story I’m telling that draws a lot of people in. So, it is that storytelling for world changers.

Austin: So cool. It’s a primitive function of humanity to storytelling. It’s like the way that we started communicating, it’s what the scribbles on cave walls are. It’s telling stories, so it makes sense that that’s what people connect with. I don’t know, I’m sure you agree with this, we’ve heard this from a lot of different people, but it’s easy to sort of get in our own ways I think sometimes when it comes to the story that we’re trying to tell, because we have all these different experiences and this expertise and we’ve internalized what that means to us for ourselves. But a lot of the time, the way that we’re explaining the value or the outcome that we’re trying to provide, the lesson that we’re trying to teach, it doesn’t come across because it’s not connecting with a third party who hasn’t had those experiences themselves. Do you think that that’s like part of your function, Chris and the expertise of video narrative is being able to just help people get out of their own ways and clarify their message? Or do you think it’s something different too? Or more than that?

Chris: That is the fundamental thing we do and it is why I can say to integree the value that we bring when people connect with us and ask about it is, we all think that we can translate it, but at the end of the day, and I think about this like a ladder. If you want to grow to a new place, say, you’re at the bottom of a house and you’re trying to put something up on the top of it. All of your people that you reach are at the bottom, trying to figure out how to grow, to get on top of the house. You’re standing on the top of the house and there’s this ladder between the two of you, almost every speaker I’ve ever met without meaning to speaks from their side of the ladder. They use phrases and terms and words, and they say stuff from there up on the house point of view and they’re trying to figure out why it doesn’t resonate and what needs to be done in the messaging is you literally have to go rung by rung, by rung, by rung down to the bottom and you have to look up and have to say it from that point of view. 

So, when we work with clients, I hear people constantly say the word I and share from that perspective. I, I, I, I. But what actually has to happen is you have to speak in their words and you have to give people what they want. So, what almost always happens is the value they think they’re delivering, it’s actually one layer deeper, but they can’t see it yet because they can only see it from their perspective. I know I’m speaking kind of in a high level, but I can give you kind of example, after example where if we see it from the other person’s point of view, by asking a lot of questions, all of a sudden, their messaging starts resonating with people in a much clearer way.

Taylorr: Yeah. 

Austin: So, is that as simple as changing language from saying I, to you? Is there a simple way that we can contextualize how that actually works in the real world?

Chris: The first thing is that, a common thing just as a thought is that we both do help people at launching and marketing and conversations. I just see how people notice that in their first emails that they write, how often the word I is used compared to the word you. So, Hey Austin, I’m just reaching out to blank. I want to share with you blank. I want to, it’s constantly, I want this for you, where when we help people write messaging, it’s more like, Hey Austin, you were on my mind or, Hey Austin, you came up in our business meeting this week and it’s what we’re hearing from you, or when they’re reaching out to a conference, your conference came on our radar because of its focus on blank. It’s your conference came on our radar because of its focus on and it’s like, yes, they took the time to really understand us and what our focus is. 

And the next part where I work with a speaker who focuses on exactly what you’re describing. But from a messaging standpoint, the story definitely has to hit a number of beats. For example, the easiest way that I have people help them think about this, if I’m giving five minutes in front of a group of speakers, I always tell them, here’s the script. As I work with what I consistently see, what most people don’t realize it once they and the results are. The way that that would work is for example, if I were to share this. As I work with speakers throughout the country, what I consistently see is there’s this gap between the expertise they have and the impact they want to make.

And they’re trying to figure out how to fill that. What most people don’t realize is if you want to fill that gap, it comes down to three things. It comes down to you having a distinct message. It comes down to you telling a complete story with the way that you do your best at messaging. And it comes down to you marketing every single thing you do around that distinction and that story said over and over and over until everyone in the world understands it. And when you get those three things right, the results are astounding. I have seen people just change their language and in one year to a next, their business grew by 80%. You can just hear that I said, as I work with, and I said, the character in the story, which is professional speakers, what most people don’t realize is, and I gave them this knowledge that they didn’t have, which makes me someone that they can trust and then I gave him a process.

And then I helped them understand the results. Now, something that’s most people know is that Donald Miller and the StoryBrand has really brought this to the surface in a big, big way over the last several years. What happens though is first of all, it’s brilliant and there’s a reason that that messaging has caught fire because the StoryBrand model, it’s an ancient as much as we process information or minds like knowledge applied to business strategy and nobody until this time has done it in the way that they have done it. So, it is brilliant, amazing, incredible. I can’t say enough about it. The part that’s hard is that a lot of times people think if they just follow that formula, it’s going to work and they don’t see the results.

And the reason they don’t is because it’s much more around the way that StoryBrand does it around how you do marketing and it’s kind of getting someone to buy something where in the speaker industry, the two parts that are so important is that the character in the story is your audience and the problems that they have, you have to be so specific about which problem you solve for them and then the guide part, it’s not just saying a few things, it’s that you have to connect your story directly to what they want most. So often when people go through the StoryBrand model, they come back and they’re still saying all the words as if they’re on that top part of the ladder. And all the words they use actually have to be from the bottom and it’s just taking a couple extra layers and I don’t know how else to say it. Even me, we have a very hard time doing it for ourselves. It’s like we need to have someone outside of us, help us be aware of what we’re missing and that’s just what we tend to do for people. 

Taylorr: Wow. That’s fascinating. It just goes to show you, like we can get in our own ways a lot of the time and as professional storytellers, we can have a hard time telling our own story. I think that’s one of the common mistakes that people make, to your point is they’re kind of telling the story from the roof, rather than from the bottom. But are there any other mistakes that stand out to you that people make aside from how they’re telling their story or how they’re packaging it? One of the things that stood out to me when you were just talking is about packaging the story where the character of the story is the audience. One thing that we see time and time again, is depending on the speaker, of course, they’ll position the story in terms of the audience members, because they’re thinking in terms of the, the audience, versus their decision-makers, which often can be two different stories. And as a speaker, especially through the sales process, the marketing process, you have to position yourself for your decision makers, but then you have to get up on stage and tell a story to the audience that resonates, that has an impact. So, there’s almost like this meta-layer you have to satisfy two audiences, basically. Do you find that same thing to be true with the clients you’ve worked with that, that delineation between the two audiences or should shouldn’t there be a delineation?

Chris: I actually feel, and I’ll tell you that a lot of people feel exactly opposite than me in this situation, but I’ve always felt, and this is talking with meeting professionals constantly that many speakers think their client is the meeting professional and they orient their messaging a lot around the meeting professional, but great meeting professionals they don’t want to be banned or to catered to, or anything. They know who they’re looking for and they know what they’re trying to create as a result of this and so they’re looking for the answer to what they’ve been tasked to find. I’ve always really coached all of our clients and taken the approach with every one of our videos and every message is we make a specific page and like a structure when we do websites for meeting professionals to make it easy for them but we don’t tailor a single message for meeting professionals ever. 

We make it easy for them to book the speaker, but it’s always about if your event is about blank, there’s no one in the world that’s going to be able to solve it the way I do and here’s why. And they know what they’re looking for. So, in my mind, only one, and the user of course, is the audience, but the meeting professional is a broker between the two and they’re know what they’re looking for and so it’s much more like if you were to try to sell your house to a real estate agent, the realtors are the ones who are going to bring people to me, the realtors know what their buyers want. And so, I focus all of our messaging on one the buyers, but then two, knowing that there’s three stages to a sales process.

First is usually on big events, they have a younger person working alongside the meeting professional to create a list, a short list and usually this person is in their twenties or early thirties. They’re creating their short list, they’re handing it to the meeting professional or whatever, or the meeting professional themselves is doing it and then when they get the short list, it’s a committee or a senior VP who actually ends up being the one who signs off on it. And so, you’ve got two points of needing to close the deal. And it’s actually, again, three. It’s one, does my video get me on the short list, because it’s so clear. Then two, you’ve got this conversation in the middle and so often people don’t use that conversation to really, really understand what they’re looking for and why they’re looking for it and go three or four layers deep.

They do share what they’re going to bring and they ask questions like how do you want your people to feel after? Which is fine, but a much deeper and better question is what is the organization dealing with this year? What are the goals that they have? Where’s the gap? And obviously you don’t ask the question where’s the gap but if you get to the core of that, they’re going to be having such a deeper conversation with you and only then are you sharing about yourself? And then finally, if that final committee, and so we always ask people or tell people to do get your video on the short list and then have that conversation in a real detailed way, and then have a series of videos that we craft with them that are oriented around the thing that they hear a lot. So, they have like three to four or five videos that they’re waiting to send and if on the conversation, someone says this, it’s like great follow-up with this video. So now when they’re making that final decision, you’re that one of those top three, you want to go to the top one. It is a process and that process, most people don’t really think about it in terms of how I orient around that three-part process, because it is multiple layers. 

Taylorr: Wow. That is really specific. I think that’s awesome. I think people need to hear this.

Austin: For sure. 

Taylorr: You said something that I have to ask about too, which is fascinating to me. Are you saying that speakers should consider at least having multiple videos that sort of cater to different solutions that may be looking for that can then be drawn from, to push the sale over the finish line? What did you mean by having three or four videos that you then send out?

Chris: It goes back to what we were saying before, it’s different stories. So, in different keynotes that you give, you have different stories that address different thing. So, one of the things that we always ask in our first call is what are some of the stories that your audience resonate with the most and where are they in your keynote? Because some stories are about this and some are about that and each story or each point address a different struggle. And if an organization says, you know, right now we’re seeing not just our sales down, but we’re seeing low morale and blank to blank. It’s like, do you have a story about that in your keynote? Make sure that’s isolated. And so, we’re always asking at the beginning as we go through keynotes, and a lot of times we’re helping people develop their keynotes, but let’s really be clear about the phrases people are using a lot when you’re reaching out to them and then let’s orient some of your stories around that or isolate some of the stories in the keynote that apply to that, and then follow up with that story. 

And this is the key is that we have this messaging in the email that says, you know, Hey Austin, it was so amazing to speak with you, I know you have a big choice ahead. On the call, you brought up that your people are seeing blank. Here’s a section from my keynote where I address exactly that. I’m available for any conversations or questions as a follow-up. Please let me know. I want to make it as easy as possible for you to make this decision. So, it’s like what you said, here’s a part of my keynote where I address that. So that’s thorough, it’s just having the knowledge that all of my videos should do is get me on the short list but now I have some stuff to do after. 

And if it’s okay, Taylor, one of the things I just want to bring up, you said what’s one of the biggest mistakes I see speakers make. For me, it’s that it’s there’s so much more money on the table than just keynote speeches and so often the biggest mistake I see is that it feels a lot better for most clients to give, Hey, I’d rather do 40 keynotes, get in, get out and leave because it’s less time and energy for me. But what I would say is that when there’s an organization who loves you and you take enough time to understand what they’re going through and tailor something for them, and then do the follow-up with them, the relationships that you form can last for years and years and years. And there’s so much more in ways that you can help them, that don’t require the more time-intensive stuff that most speakers think is going to be.

Like, I just want to do a keynote and leave. I’m tired of all this consulting, I’m tired of all this coaching, whatever. It’s like a lot of times, you could do a keynote and then for the next six weeks, once a week on a Tuesday morning, you could do a virtual session with them. And this was even before, but now it’s even easier. There’re so many different ways when you’ve asked what they’re really trying to achieve, if you can help them get to the outcome, how much more you can have a few clients a year that are spending six figures with you, then having to constantly get that new keynote going. And that’s the biggest mistake I would say is that people think in their mind, it’s easier to do a one keynote and leave because I don’t have to deal with all the extra. When in fact, the people who are in the millionaire speaking group and doing so much, so often are the people who figured out when I do a great job and I help them hit an outcome, they want to continue this work with me for years to come.

 Every year they ask, can we do another thing? And it makes that sales process so easy and then when things go kind of hard, like they did in 2020, you’ve got some strong clients that create that stability. I’ve had clients this last year, a great example is he’s like Chris, I was doing this keynote, keynote, keynote thing, but then you helped me shift this model and because I can, I’m not naming names, I can say he’s like I was at around 200,000 a year. Now I’m at 900,000 a year because I have three or four clients who each are paying six figures and I’m doing these virtual sessions with them over an eight-week period or a 10-week period, or in this situation four different clients, wanted him for full 12 months. But for 200,000, that’s something he’s willing to do and he now schedules Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday is when he does these calls with these different organizations. And now any keynote is just a plus, it’s a bonus. But it’s just we don’t take enough time in that first call to understand that they are thinking about an event, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t help them get a lot more better results if you just take the time to ask and have some products and processes in place that can address that post keynote.

Austin: Dropping truth folks.

Taylorr: Golden nuggets right there. 

Austin: Yeah. 

Taylorr: That’s so true.

Chris: It’s something we hear too, just all the time. Businesses change overnight when they start developing the relationship beyond the keynote. It’s what your clients want, they’re out there to solve a problem and I think it’s a common phrase out there that we take in 10% of what we hear. So, you get onstage, you know that’s the 10% that’s getting heard, but now what can you do to make sure 50% of it getting heard? What can you do to make sure 80% of it getting heard? And how can you progress your clients through that process? You can deepen the relationship with them. And to your point, Chris, some people think it can be intimidating, like oh, in order for me to land a big contract like that, I have to devote the amount of time that’s equivalent to that contract. And as you know, it’s really about the value that you’re providing that client and them knowing that they have a safe place to go to and a trustworthy place that is actually going to get the job done for them. I’m really glad you highlighted that component because it’s something we see time and time again.

Austin: For sure. I’m curious just as we start to wrap this thing up, how have you felt that like this process and the speaking industry itself, I guess, and the ways in which experts who speak and make money have changed or has changed in the last 10 years that you’ve been doing this? Are there any like benchmarks that you’ve seen happen that have been major shifts in the space?

Chris: The single greatest benchmark, without a doubt and most people don’t realize this, although it’s a hundred percent apparent, as soon as I say it, everyone would go, oh yeah, duh. The single, single difference has been TEDx. And why that is, is that Ted was a great idea of getting some great high people who’ve come up with new technologies, new ideas together once a year. And then it kind of started going TEDx, independent conferences around the world where people who have never thought about speaking ever because they’re academics or they’re doing research or they during orientation or whatever, can now speak. And most people of course know, Brene Brown is a perfect example is like, she’s a professor, she’s not a speaker.  But if you ask what is one of the most sought-after professional speakers in the world right now, it’s going to be Brene Brown.

Why? Because TEDx changed it. It changed that before there was a lot of people who are speakers and they were speakers and there was kind of like a club of speakers and they had a traditional style. It was like the Zig Ziglar style, it was the Jim Rohn style. All of a sudden, all these people who just have ideas can now speak. And these people after they get one Ted Talk is like I want to do that again, but also the thousands of people watching Ted Talks are like I can share my idea. And any speaker who’s been in this over the last couple of decades, especially the last decade will know that it got very crowded, very, very, very fast. Really fast. And why did that? Because now thought leader is an idea is a coined phrase and it’s something that most thought leaders speak and the market got very, very, very crowded and the traditional keynote speaker has now not in any way, like gone away, but it’s very, very different. And that’s changing by the day.

Austin: Oh, that’s such an interesting perspective. I’ve literally never even thought about that before, but it makes perfect sense. 

Taylorr: Yeah. That plus, you have the media, the rise of social media, personal branding, the internet, you can get in front of so many more people, just on a string of luck. One night you post something and it could go viral and you’re not a speaker and all of a sudden thing can turn on overnight just like TEDx can, if you get the right talk out there. It’s more accessible and so now more than ever, you have to differentiate yourself, which is, I think, a big, reason Chris, why your clients have been so successful is you very easily are able to communicate their story in a way that cuts through so much more noise than ever was there before. Thanks so much for dropping all these nuggets, man. It’s been a really eye-opening episode. I had never even thought about Ted being the main driver here of how things have shifted over the last decade, let alone how to tell a story better. One of our ways to round this thing out is just knowing what you’re working on and how our listeners can benefit from what you’re working on. What are some of the things you have cooking right now?

Chris: More than anything is that there’s a limit to our time [inaudible 31:45] of our time and something that we are asked a lot is could you take a look at my messaging? Could you help me refine the keynote? Could you help me refine the website? I don’t need anything overhauled; I just need this to be dialed in. And so, we began doing something called The Speaker Narrative Workshop, where it is a narrative of how you craft your brand narrative for yourself as a speaker. And it’s an easy way for two days for people to attend virtually and just refine their process and we have it so dialed in where we really walk people through that distinction, the brand story, their changed model, which is where all the money is made because that changed model is the place where you build those beyond the keynote stuff. And then the business plan behind it, we go through those steps so that people go, okay, sweet. I know how to reorient my message. So, The Speaker Narrative Workshop is the easiest way for people in a very low-cost way to come in for two days, get with some of our speakers and really refine their brand.

Taylorr: Perfect. Well, I’ll make sure that those links are in the show notes for everyone listening. Definitely go check that out. Those workshops are incredibly powerful and hey, if you found this episode valuable, don’t forget to rate it, subscribe to it and if you want more awesome resources like this, go to speakerflow.com/resources. Thank you so much for chiming in, I just wanted to take a second to thank our sponsor Auxbus. Auxbus is the all-in-one suite of tools you need to run your podcast and it’s actually what we run here at Speaker Flow for Technically Speaking. It makes planning podcast simple; it makes recording podcasts simple; it even makes publishing podcasts to the masses simple and quite honestly, Technically Speaking wouldn’t be up as soon as it is without Auxbus. Thank you so much Auxbus. And if you are interested in checking Auxbus out, whether you’re starting a podcast or you have one currently get our special offer auxbus.com/speaker flow, or click the link below in our show notes.