S. 2 Ep. 49 – What It Means To Be A Conscious Leader

Austin: All right. Boom. We are live.

Taylorr: Look at us. Wow. Another one.

Austin: We did it, it’s so great. Kelly, welcome to the show. So happy to have you.

Kelly: Thank you, guys, so good to see you again.

Austin: Yeah. We, kind of, got thrown for a loop right before we got into the show today because we produce this podcast on Zencaster, obviously, Kelly, but they just pushed a huge update. And so, we got in, getting prepared for this and everything was different.

Taylorr: Changed.

Austin: We were like, yeah.

Taylorr: I was like, I don’t know how to use this tool.

Austin: It worked out, though. So, hooray for that, I guess. Oh, well, we’re so excited to have you on the show, Kelly. We were looking at your website and we found this e-book that you have, ‘Partner Don’t Pitch’, I think is what it was called. And there was a line item that was on the page that got us interested, it was a guide to the emotion economy. And I imagine this plays into you and your topic and also the bureau, which we’ll get to in a little bit here, but I’m wondering if you can, sort of, start by helping us understand what you mean by the emotion economy. And then, hopefully, that’ll translate into all of the other stuff we want to talk to you about.

Kelly: Yeah, actually, that’s a great place to start; I’m glad that you’ve picked up on that. That eBook’s been out for a while and, essentially, what I mean by the emotion economy is that I think that there’s this, I don’t know, longevity of thinking that businesses do business with other businesses, and that’s not true, right? At the end of the day, it’s always going to be a human-to-human connection. And so, the more that you can listen and develop your own self-awareness, mirror back what people are saying, really, hone-in on what is most important to them, as opposed to just pushing through and getting your own pitch out. 

That’s what I mean by the emotion economy. It’s not any different from the fact that when advertising agencies started and understood that to be most successful, they had to, kind of, draw on people’s emotions, it’s the same concept, except it’s just an evolution of that, at this point.

Taylorr: Yeah.

Austin: Man.

Taylorr: Seems more intrinsic than extrinsic, as you said.

Kelly: Exactly.

Taylorr: A good phrase there, draw on people’s emotion. It has this, kind of, I don’t know, predatory feeling.

Kelly: It’s extractive. Yeah.

Taylorr: Yeah, extractive.

Kelly: Absolutely. Extractive. So, the, I guess the linchpin or the difference here, in what I’m talking about is, instead of using that in a predatory or extractive way, using that to inform how you can better meet their needs, as opposed to selling them something that they don’t, actually, want or need.

Austin: Oh, man.

Taylorr: Awesome.

Austin: Okay. So, obviously, you have an immense understanding of the marketing world and I’m, really, excited to get into that, but, I think there’s a, really, important point that I want to just emphasize here related to any business, which is that people are so intimidated by the idea of sales and marketing. And I think it’s, partially, because there’s been this trope that’s gone on forever, that in order to be good at sales and marketing, you have to be manipulative. Maybe that’s too strong of a word, but you’re trying to make your puppets dance or something, and so there’s some magic formula of words or actions that you’re calling for, or whatever, that equal a sale. 

But, I think that not only do you get more effective, but also the intimidation goes down when you recognize what you were just talking about here, which is that you, the person selling something, are a person talking to another person. And, at the end of the day, it’s a relationship, and relationships aren’t hard, or at least they’re not supposed to be, unless you’re being, I don’t know, unethical, I guess you could say. But, anyway, so I think the biggest takeaway that I learned, both from what you just said, and from looking through the eBook and everything is, you just have to bring the humanity back to the entire process of working with people. And when you do that, life gets easier and you become more effective, and that’s good takeaway.

Kelly: Yeah. I think the reason why business development is so natural for me and why I love it so much is the same reason why I think I’m a pretty great coach to other agency leaders and owners. And it’s, literally, just, if you have the self-awareness and the understanding to hold space for someone to be able to let them, essentially, give you all the information that they need so that you can help them, right? Figure out what are their motivations, what, kind of, impact is this thing, this product or service that you’re selling or that you’re representing. 

How is this going to impact them on a personal level, on a business level? The more that you can, kind of, develop that rapport to understand more of how this is going to impact them on that human, emotional, deeper level, you can have a much deeper conversation and you’re not selling, at that point. You’re meeting a need, providing tons of value and developing that relationship, which then can lead to things that you don’t even imagine, at this point, right? I’ve seen that time and again, where even conversations that I may have had a couple of years ago, somebody will come back and look at my LinkedIn profile, oh, what are you doing now? 

Oh, I know somebody who needs that and I loved that experience that I had with you, let me connect you. You know? So, it’s the most organic way to do business development or sales, a lot of people think sales is a dirty word. I don’t, I think it’s just purely human connection and deep relationships, not relational sales in the way that people, I think overuse that phrase, but I mean meaningful, authentic relationships.

Taylorr: Yeah. Well, Austin, what episode was it? Was it Dr. T we were recording on, the sales means to give, not to take, was that?

Austin: Yes.

Taylorr: Dr. T?

Austin: The Latin root of sales.

Taylorr: Much love. Yeah, Latin root of sales, right. Means to give, not to take.

Kelly: That’s interesting, I did not know that.

Taylorr: Yeah. So, it was a lesson we learned recently, so it’s just, kind of, reinforcing all of that, but, yeah, it’s awesome. We love the work you do, Kelly. So, on that note, okay, you have a tremendous background; two successful exits, to now, your thought leadership business and your bureau, Consciousness Leaders. How did all of that happen? Did you wake up one day and be like, this is what I want to do when I grow up or just stumble into it? What, yeah, how? I’ll leave it there.

Kelly: Yeah. I wish that it was something like that, but, no, the reality was I woke up one day incredibly unhappy, incredibly miserable in a very successful business where I loved our clients. I loved my team. I ran a cause marketing agency for 14 years. So, we focus on nonprofits foundation, we called it CSR back then, Corporate Social Responsibility, you might just call it social impact or sustainability now. But that was the focus of our work, which was, sort of, a reflection of the personal passion that I had for doing good in the world, right? 

And running that company for 14 years, I made all the mistakes that you could possibly make, I learned all of the lessons that you could, possibly, learn in that timeframe and there was still more to learn. But, at the end of the day, it was impacting my marriage, it was impacting my health, and I couldn’t understand why, right? I had a successful business with a great team with great clients and I was still unhappy. And so, I made the decision to sell the company. And it was, really, hard because I don’t have kids of my own, so; at that point, it was like selling my 14 year old daughter off, right? Just like, oh my God, what is happening?

Taylorr: What an analogy

Kelly: And that happened, and then, immediately after that, I was met with this, not to be super dramatic, but I was, really, kind of, confronted with this, almost ego death. Because I had never known, I started the company when I was 22 years old; I had never known what it was like to be anything other than a CEO, from a pretty young age, right? And so, now all of these scripts were running in my mind, you’re, totally, unemployable, what are you going to do next? What is your purpose in the world? What are you here for? 

And I was like, Ugh, this is big. This is like, existential questions that I could not answer. And that, sort of, awakening led me to, well, I guess I’ll just do consulting for now. I think that there’s a lot of value in owning, scaling and selling an agency, a creative agency. And so, I’ll work with other people in that field. And I did that for a little while, but it was still, I could tell that there was this thing inside of me, that was, this isn’t it. This is closer, this is a step toward it, whatever it is, but this isn’t it. 

And then, I had a conversation with a prospective client who said, I can’t afford you as a consultant, but do you do coaching? And in my mind, at that time, because I had no idea. I was like, so what’s coaching? You just do it remotely and charge a lot less and, maybe, meet less often. Sure, I do that.

Taylorr: Right.

Kelly: Right. And so, that was me being naive, as to not understanding what coaching, really, was. So, I said, yes, but, basically, I was consulting him for a reduced fee and, anyway. We get into the relationship and he started noticing that some of the ways in which he was showing up as a leader with his employees, he was, actually, bringing that home and it was showing up in his relationship with his kids and his wife. And he said, Hey, I’m noticing these things, is that something that we could talk about? And it was like the heavens opened up and I was like, oh my God, not only can we talk about this, this is all I want to talk about. 

And so, again, goes back to that human, really, deep, meaningful connection and relationship, and trying to help someone with what they, actually, needed. In that moment, it wasn’t about scaling his digital agency. It was about helping him with what was top of mind right in that moment, right? And so, we started working on that a little bit, and then, that’s, kind of, what spring-boarded the idea of, okay, I need to double down into understanding what does it mean to be a coach? 

I, really, wanted to lean into being a trauma-informed coach so that I could help people, I wasn’t a therapist and I didn’t want to go into being a licensed therapist. But I knew that there was a correlation just for my personal experience between what I was bringing in, so my past trauma and things like that, that I was bringing in as a business leader, into my business. In the ways that I was selling, the ways that I was pricing, the ways that I was interacting with my employees, the ways that I was getting disheartened whenever I lost a proposal. So, all of these things were so clearly connected to me. And I was like; this is, actually, what I think I want to do. So, that’s a long winded way to answer your question, but that was, sort of, the path.

Austin: That’s so powerful. Holy cow. Let me make sure I’m, kind of, understanding this here too, because it sounds like the passion came from you identifying that there were personal factors, trauma, in many instances, I’m sure, with a lot of people to varying degrees, that’s being brought into the business that is affecting the performance and the happiness factor, the joy that comes out of running the business. But it also sounds like, in some ways, it went the other way too, where practices inside of business were feeding back into a more negative environment in home life, where this client of yours, for example, is saying that it’s affecting my marriage and relationship with kids and stuff. 

So, I have this, maybe, intuition here that there needs to be an alignment between who we are and what we know about ourselves and what we recognize about ourselves on a personal, non-professional level and the professional level, and, sort of, merging these things. Am I on the right track?

Kelly: You’re not only on the right track; the word is integration, right? So.

Taylorr: Wow, hold to that.

Kelly: We’ve been taught that we have to show up a certain way in business, essentially, wearing a mask, and then, we can be ourselves at home. And when you try to create a silo or a silo-ed dynamic with your ego, with your way of being, you’re, essentially, battling yourself every single day, right? And so, people can, kind of, tell when you’re being inauthentic in business, because that’s not, actually, how you are in real life. So, I want to just, kind of, put a pin in that, that there’s this misnomer that we have to show up more professionally. 

It’s not that we have to show up more professionally, we have to show up more authentically, and then, we can relate, and then, business becomes easier, and then, relationships with our employees and clients and things like that become easier, because they can trust us more. They can trust that who we show up as, is, really, the true us, right? And so, it’s that integration between the selves, right? 

And so, there shouldn’t be two, there should be one. And I’m not saying that where if you’re in finance, for example, showing up in an Adidas shirt and shorts to a business meeting may not go over well, because people want to see a certain persona, right? They want to take you more seriously. I get that. But that doesn’t mean that you have to abandon who you are at the core. You can just wear a nice suit.

Austin: Right. All right, that’s a wrap, thank you for listening to Technically Speaking.

Taylorr: See you later; we learned what we needed to. I got goose there.

Austin: That was so valuable.

Taylorr: I don’t know about you, Austin.

Austin: Me too.

Taylorr: But, holy crap.

Austin: Oh, my heart was fluttering a little bit right there. Yeah. Kelly. So, does this integration with professional and personal self, for lack of better terms, there are many versions of ourselves, I’m sure, depending on the context of the situation we’re in, but is this how you define a conscious leader?

Kelly: So, a conscious leader takes that a step further. A conscious leader will have that self-awareness, that they are that authentic person that they’re showing up as wherever they are, home, business, social settings, church groups, wherever, right? So, there are the same person, they show up, there’s a consistency to that. That means that there’s a trust factor, there’s a relatability, there’s an authenticity, there’s a genuine nature to that. So, a conscious leader has that self-awareness and has been doing the work to understand that is the truth, right? The truth is I have to show up as the same person, no matter where I am. 

Then on top of that, a conscious leader leans-in to support their people, because they understand that by supporting your people within your organization, that is going to pay dividends, right? And you don’t do it with the intention of, well; this is how I’m going to make a ton of money. You do it because you care about the people who are under your stewardship, right? And then, that, naturally, leads to also considering other stakeholders like the environment, right? So, you’re not going to be this super caring, very genuine people-centric person, and then, dump waste-water in your local river, right? That would be out of alignment. 

So, it’s, really, about integrity in all of the different aspects of your life, whether it’s personal or business. And so, conscious leadership is about all of those things, and you’re still a leader, in this case, we’re talking about running a business, so you’re still considering the bottom line, but you’re not putting profit above people and planet. You’re putting it on the same plane as it. And that’s, really, what conscious leadership is all about.

Taylor: Oh, man, what a good definition. Thanks for outlining all of that, super. The path isn’t easy, as you know, to get there, but it’s, definitely, taking the abstract and simplifying how to get there, which is.

Kelly: Yeah. Honestly, to me, it’s so funny that we have to have a phrase. I’m, kind of, going off on a tangent here.

Taylorr: Sure. Please.

Kelly: But the fact that we have to have a phrase for showing up and doing the right thing is a little mind bending to me. But since the industrial age, where everything was about productivity and extraction and profit, profit, profit, right? How do we get more out of our people if we need to just burn them out and replace them? You still see that today. That’s why you have quiet quitting, and quiet firing, and you have the resignation-era and all of these things happening, because people are fed up with it, they don’t want to be exploited anymore. 

And so, the idea of a leader just, kind of, leaning in supporting his or her fellow humans that are working to catapult their company or their organization. That’s very natural to me, but, apparently, that’s not natural to a lot of people. And then, there’s the skepticism of, well, I can’t support my people and consider the environment and make a profit, that would be utopia, that would be crazy, that’s impossible. But when you, actually, look at the studies and the research and the companies that are flourishing, those are conscious leaders, right?

Taylorr: Yeah. Totally.

Kelly: So, it’s not the impossible, it’s not utopian. John Mackey and Raj Sisodia were talking about conscious capitalism a decade ago. This is not a new concept. That’s, really, where conscious leadership, the phrase conscious leadership came, it was born out of the conscious capitalism movement. And it’s been picking up a lot of steam over the last decade and now it’s everywhere.

Taylorr: Yeah, for sure.

Austin: How much do you think this modern technological age that we’re in has contributed to this? Because I feel part of the unrest and the reason that people are becoming so outspoken about what they need from their workplace and how they need to feel supported is because they have a voice now. You can speak to the whole world, no matter how small of fish in the sea you are, whatever that phrase means. But, I think that has to have had an impact, right? The ability for us to connect with each other at scale, in a way that we’ve never been able to, especially, through that industrial revolution period where we were so focused on extraction.

Kelly: Right. Right. Yeah, I think technology has a huge part to play in it, but it’s not the only factor, right? To be honest, a lot of people had access to those things prior to the pandemic, right? And then, you had the pandemic, the murder of George Floyd and we could go on and on and on. And it got piled up and piled up and I think people got to the point where they were like, wait a minute, I have to stop for a second. I, literally, cannot function, I’m not okay. I have to now reassess everything in my life, which includes my job, how my boss treats me, how this, that, right? 

And so, I think it was the perfect storm and the technology gave us, kind of, that platform or that media to be able to say, yeah, this is not okay. So, yeah, absolutely. And I’m happy about it. There are a lot of people who I would call unconscious or low-conscious leaders, who are very unhappy about this, because when people set boundaries, it flies in the face of productivity if you’re a low-conscious leader, if you’re not into supporting your people.

Taylorr: Yeah. Right.

Austin: It’s so funny that that’s, sort of, the line of thinking for some people and there’s.

Kelly: For a lot of people, Austin, a lot.

Taylorr: Yeah.

Austin: For sure. Well, there are examples that we see in the marketplace of people turning the tables a little bit and focusing less on profit and other areas, and then, secondary to that, I guess, profit goes through the roof. The one that comes to mind and, maybe, this isn’t the best example because of additional context that’s happened since then, but Gravity Payments, they did their whole thing where the CEO.

Kelly: This is Dan Price. Yeah, I know.

Taylorr: Right, right, right.

Austin: It’s such a good example because it shows that by focusing on the people, you, actually, get more of what you should want according to traditional way of running a business than if you had.

Kelly: Yeah. You could also bring into that conversation just, again, because of the context with Dan Price, Patagonia, right?

Taylorr: Yeah, Patagonia, true.

Kelly: Tony Hsieh, before he passed away, Zappos, these were people who, really, leaned into culture that was very people-centric. And so, what happens when you focus on people and they feel seen, heard, supported, valued, respected, they are more productive, they’re more loyal, there’s less attrition, right? That leads to better customer service, better productivity, better innovation, more collaboration, which then leads to the greater bottom line. But it’s a natural, it’s a lagging indicator. It’s not the thing that you focus on, right? 

So, this is when I do speaking engagements about conscious leadership. It’s like, yes, the profit will come, but it’s not the sole intention, it’s not the sole focus. The purpose of business is not to make money. And people are like, what, well, then, what is it? Right? No, it’s not, it’s to support the people within the organization and the ripple effect that creates within their families, their communities, the larger ripple effect of that. And also, you will, naturally, make more profit and, probably, have higher margins because everybody’s, kind of, working a little bit more, dare I say, harmoniously.

Taylorr: Yeah, for sure. Well, we’re seeing this unfold with the push of the four day work week, that’s, kind of, been lingering in the world for, I would say, maybe, for the, really, early, I wouldn’t say adopters, but thought leaders in that, maybe, five years or so. And then, they started testing that heavily, maybe, two or three years ago, especially, in Europe, let’s say. And we have real proof of that happening, of you take away a full day of what would otherwise be productivity and a low conscious mind, let’s say, and that’s fearful, because now we’re not going to make as much money. 

But now there’s real proof, empirical proof that productivity goes up or doesn’t change at all, and profit goes up and people are happier and they’re loyal. And just to speak from our own experience, we initiated the four day work week, was it a year and a half ago, or so, Austin? Nothing has changed, the business has boomed, it doesn’t matter that our team isn’t around on Friday, they have a better life and are happier, and it’s allowed us to attract talent that, otherwise, would be taken by, maybe, better established organizations. It’s not hard, as you said; it’s crazy that we even have to have this conversation.

Kelly: I know, I know. I, actually, so I’ve been doing four day work weeks for the last five years, and then, about a year and a half ago.

Taylorr: Yeah, real early. Holy cow.

Kelly: Yeah, when you guys transitioned to four, I, actually, went down to three. So, I worked Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.

Taylorr: There it is, Austin, we’re going to three, man.

Kelly: And I’m telling you I am [Inaudible – 23:28] productive in those days, and I use Mondays and Fridays for writing. So, it’s not that I’m not doing anything, but I need a full chunk of time to be able to work on the book. And so, anyway, yes, it’s that, and then, the same exact thing to your example, Taylorr, is just the idea of remote work five years ago was like, we can’t do that, we can’t watch our employees, we have to install things on their computers to make sure that they’re sitting in their seat. It’s just ludicrous; you have to trust your people, and then what happened? 

We didn’t have a choice. We had to go remote or now we have to go hybrid or right? And, yeah, everyone has seen productivity increases, but without that mental health and wellness and break time and real white space, people can, actually, push too far into that, and they can become a little, a little too invested in working from home. But then again, that’s the leader’s job or a leader’s job to be able to say, Hey, still within working hours, right? We don’t expect you to be answering an email at 10 o’clock just because you’ve been home all day.

Taylorr: That’s right. Yeah, expectations.

Kelly: Anyway, we could talk for hours.

Taylorr: Yeah, I know. We have to have a whole long episode or something.

Austin: Seriously.

Taylorr: I’d be like, holy crap, yeah, I made the mega episodes. So, okay. So, I want to segue just a bit, because, at some point, you created a bureau to help position people who have this mindset, these leaders in front of, so how did that happen? What was the mission behind that? Can you, yeah, just share that journey for us?

Kelly: Yeah. So, that happened after the murder of George Floyd.

Taylorr: Okay.

Kelly: I started thinking about the fact that, again, people are not going to be okay. They’re not okay already, we were, I don’t know how far into the pandemic when that happened. But it was enough where people were just already, kind of, super traumatized, super burnt out, really, uncertain about what was going to happen. And then, it felt like this tidal wave of something that, racism is something that we have all been dealing with and a part of and have a hand in and or are on the receiving end of, for a very long time. And then, after that happened, it was like, wow, people are going to need help. Employees are going to need to feel more supported. And that’s a, really, difficult conversation within organizations. 

Most leaders will step back very far, wouldn’t touch that conversation with a 10 foot pole, right? And so, I, kind of, had the foresight to say, okay, well, whether it’s talking about race within an organization or talking about trauma or mental health, all of these things were just surfacing. And I thought, well, if I was a leader, whether I was in HR or DEI, or just part of a leadership team of a small, medium, or large size organization. Where would I go to find someone who could help me facilitate that conversation or come in to speak with our people or come in a virtual conference, in-person conference, summit, leadership retreat, where would I find those people? Would I just do a Google search? 

So, I started looking and I was like, oh, that doesn’t exist. There is no one place where you could find people that, who I would say, are experts in conscious leadership, umbrella term, but then have nuance expertise within DEI, sustainability, mental health in the workplace, you name it, right? Somatic emotional release, all of these things that are, kind of, subsets or nuance topics underneath conscious leadership. So, I thought, well, if it doesn’t exist, let me build it. And this would’ve been my fourth company that I’ve built in my career, and I felt it was a, really, nice culmination of all of the skills that I had, right? 

Because if you’re going to build, technically, an online platform or a web-based platform where people can find folks that they’re looking to bring into their organizations, I just felt like, well, my background feels like a, really, good fit for this. I have a lot of passion for it. And also, as someone who identifies as a woman and is part of the LGBTQ community, I wanted to make sure that people who have, historically, not been represented by POC, LGBTQ people with disabilities, military veterans, those who identify as neurodiverse, on and on and on, all of the, what I would call the global majority, because I don’t use the word minorities. 

But the global majority, which is, actually, a more accurate term for all of us. I wanted to create a space where there was more visibility for them, right? And so, that’s, really, what Consciousness Leaders is. At this point, it’s the world’s most diverse collective of experts on conscious leadership.

Taylorr: Oh, that’s beautiful.

Austin: Wow, that is so cool. I love that. So, what happened in the marketplace when that happened? Did you find that people were as receptive to the ideas your intuition was telling you, was there barriers that you had to get past? What was that like?

Kelly: No, there were no barriers there; at that point, people were very hungry for this, right? So, the demand was, really, high. It, definitely, has not trickled out or trickled down or come down in any way; I would say that people are now realizing that what they did, because they didn’t know any better, by creating DEI roles or just taking somebody who happened to be a person of color or happened to be gay in their organization, and they’re like, oh, you’re our new head of diversity, equity and inclusion. There was a lot that I would say, were missteps, I think organizations now, so about a year and a half later, are realizing that they, actually, need a strategy and they need to bring in the right people to help them. 

So, we represent speakers, coaches, consultants, authors, and workshop facilitators. So, it’s a nice, sort of, inventory of what are your challenges? Right? This goes back to the business development conversation from earlier. Taking a consultative approach with these organizations to say, what are you struggling with? What is top of mind? What does leadership, really, need? Where are there gaps within the organization? How can we help fill them? That’s a much different conversation than like, book this motivational speaker for $50,000 for a 45 minute keynote. So, I don’t know if that answered your question, but.

Taylorr: Damn.

Austin: It, totally, does. Yeah.

Austin: Well, I imagine it has to be a little challenging too, because there are so many gaps. There are so many areas that have come to light that we, really, need to take a look at if we’re going to bring people together and help our organizations become sustainable toward the future and everything. So, it seems like that consultative approach must be, really, the only way since you, kind of, have to meet organizations where they’re at and look at their strengths and weaknesses and figure out what’s going to create the most impact. So, are you, personally, involved in that process with the clients that come through the doors most of the time?

Kelly: I, absolutely, am. I’m going to do that as long as I possibly can, to be honest with you, I’m spending about 50% of my time doing that and 50% of my time with my own coaching clients and it feels like a, really, good fit right now, in terms of, and utilization of my time. That may change, at some point; I may lean a little bit more into the Consciousness Leaders, but, for right now, it feels like a good fit. And I have an amazing executive assistant who just helps me every single day, I, literally, do not know what I would do without him.

Taylorr: Heck, yeah.

Austin: Wow. That makes a big difference.

Taylorr: Well, we need all of the help in the world we can get.

Kelly: Yeah. And there’s a little team, kind of, behind the scenes for Consciousness Leaders. It helps with upkeep of the website and technical issues and things like that. So, I’m not doing everything, I’m, hopefully, smart enough to know where my time is best spent. So, I do have a team of three or four people who handle all of that.

Taylorr: Yeah, it’s a beautiful website too.

Kelly: Thank you.

Taylorr: And a fourth company go around, you learn some lessons as you alluded to earlier. So, heck, yeah.

Austin: Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Taylorr: That’s right, for sure. Oh, Kelly, this has been a super cool episode, really, unique. We haven’t had this conversation from your perspective at all yet, and it’s just so cool to like, what you’re creating is awesome. It’s what the world needs right now, you’re a true entrepreneur; you’re there for humanity, which is so cool. It’s intrinsic; it’s not extrinsic, which is just awesome. So, that being said, thank you for coming on the show today. If someone wants to learn more about you, Consciousness Leaders, what’s the best way for them to do that?

Kelly: So, my own personal website for coaching is klcampbell.com. And then, of course, Consciousness Leaders, very easy, is at consciousnessleaders.com. Little tricky to spell, but you’ll get there.

Taylorr: For sure.

Austin: Glad that you say that. Taylorr and I were both typo-ing the crap out of it the first time.

Taylorr: It was just, what is, I got it, I got it, though. It’s going to be spelled right in the show notes. So, you don’t even have to type it, just scroll down, click the link. It’ll be there. Check it out. Kelly, thank you again for being on the show. And, guys, if you like this episode, don’t forget to rate it, like it, subscribe to it, and if you want more awesome resources like this, go to speakerflow.com/resources.

Kelly: Thanks, guys.

Austin: Bye, everybody.