S. 1 Ep. 3 – There Is No “Back To Normal”. Here’s What To Do About It.

Taylorr: Welcome to another episode of technically speaking, we are very excited about today’s guest, Mr. Dave Reed, CTO, and one of the founding principals of eSpeakers. Dave has championed the use of technology in the speaking industry since 1999, least to say he’s been doing it a while. The company, he co-founded eSpeakers was his third .com startup and has grown to influence thousands of speakers’ event, organizers, speakers, bureaus, and even associations through eSpeakers, Dave helps event organizers and speakers come together to impact audiences throughout the world. He was educated as a computer scientist, so he knows the nuts and bolts but what he’s passionate about is the specific ways that technology can help the speaking industry do more of what it does best. And when he’s not working, you’ll find Dave playing with his kids, volunteering with the boy Scouts, on the running trail, or gathered around the table with friends playing a complicated European board game. Don’t let me forget to ask that question, Dave, but thanks for being here. Welcome to the show. 

Dave: All right. I’ll show my true nerd colors there.

Taylorr: Oh, I’m very excited to hear about that. Max, let’s not forget about that question, huh?

Max: Yeah, this is Dave Reed, the board game enigma we have to solve this together. So, you have to clue us in.

Taylorr: Well, Dave, thanks for being here, man. It’s really good to have you.

Dave: Hey, it’s a pleasure, it’s great. I haven’t seen you and Max for a little bit, it’s great to see you guys again and great to be on the show.

Max: Always.

Taylorr: Yeah, cool.

Max: Always. For sure.

Taylorr: So, the title speaks for itself today, right? The speaking industry, as we know, it just, isn’t going back to normal and this is really a conversation of what we need to do about it. Now recently, I mean, you guys were on the ball right away as soon as virtual started picking up and you guys released your, your virtual certification. What was the motivation behind that? What were you hearing in the industry to say like, we really need to get on this? I mean, it was almost like it hit and then you had the certification available. So, what were you hearing from the industry and what was the motivation behind that?

Dave: Sure. Yeah. You know, we sit at an interesting juncture, Espeaker sits at an interesting juncture because we have services for speakers obviously, but we also serve the other side of the fence as well. We have services for event organizers and the motivation, the impetus for this virtual certification came from that side. It came from the event organizers.

Taylorr: No kidding.

Dave: And what we heard from them was they said obviously this was back in the spring, this was back in April and event organizers were scrambling to hire speakers who could do virtual events. And one of the things that they found themselves doing over and over again was, hey, I know that the speakers got good content, I can see their video reel on their profile, I can see their past happy clients, but I don’t know if they know how to do this over zoom, I don’t have any indication of that. And so, they were having to get on with the speaker and check out their virtual environment, they were having to make sure that they had good bandwidth, they were having to make sure that they had good audio with a good microphone, that they had good lighting, that they were going to look and sound and be good on zoom like they would have been on stage because those are two different things, right?

Taylorr: Right.

Max: Yeah sure. 

Dave: And so, the event organizers were tired of having to vet every speaker that they talked to for their zoom ability and we said, look, that’s a problem that we can solve for them. We’ll do the vetting; we’ll do the zoom ability vetting. I just made that name of it [cross-talk 03:57]

Taylorr: Yeah. That’s a good word. We’re going to have to add that to the dictionary, huh?

Dave: Yeah. 

Taylorr: It’s a good word.

Dave: We’ll have to come up with a new word for that, but yeah, your zoom ability we can do that for them and then if we stick our badge on a speaker, the meeting planner doesn’t have to go through that process for themselves. They can see that badge and know what that means and they’ll be comfortable hiring them for a virtual event. 

Taylorr: Got it, nice. 

Dave: So that was the motivation that came from the event organizers.

Taylorr: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And just to build on that, just to kind of another question on that, like what does it really mean to have zoom ability? Like you rattled off a bunch of things, but what are you really looking for to give somebody the credit of a virtual certification?

Dave: You know that’s a great question too and it was one that we got asked a lot at the beginning when it first came out. Because it’s not just the speaker filling out some form that says, yes, I know how to launch a zoom and then we give them our stamp. It’s not that. We actually get one of our staff online, the assessment takes about 20 minutes and it’s done through zoom, so we’re seeing them in situ there and we test their bandwidth to make sure they’ve got good bandwidth down and up, we look at their background and their office environment, make sure it’s professional. We listen to their audio; we talk to them about their equipment and their microphone. We look up their lighting, we check the alignment of the camera to their eye height.

We do a kickoff test and we kick them off the zoom meeting and we time how long it takes them to get back in. 

Taylorr: Wow, no kidding. Yeah. 

Max: Nice. 

Dave: And there’s other things, I mean, it’s more than 20 points. It’s a 22- or 23-point checklist that again takes 20 or 30 minutes to go through. And when we’re done and we don’t pass everybody the first time, it’s not cut and dry, we don’t pass everybody. But when we do, an even organizer can have confidence that when they hire them for a virtual event, they’re going to come on, they know how to use the tool, they know how to look good and they’re going to sound good. 

Taylorr: Awesome.

Max: So, as we’re talking, Dave, a question comes to mind because obviously speakers are big on their designations, the CSP CPA, so having the virtual certification, does it discredit those? Is it more important right now than those designations? I’m just curious what you’re seeing from your seat.

Dave: That’s a great question, Max. And we had a little bit of negative feedback from that misunderstanding actually at the beginning of our announcement of this new certification.

Taylorr: Really?

Dave: Because speakers misunderstood that somehow it was competing with the CSP, which is the Certified Speaking Professional, which is given out by some national speaking associations. And the answer is it’s adjunct to any of those because it’s covering a completely different area of the speaker’s professionality. No, the CSP means that I’m a good speaker, it means that I’m doing this as a business that I’m legitimate, I know how to operate and I give good value for my clients. Our certification, the certified virtual presenter doesn’t tackle any of that. We don’t know whether… I mean we do through other means, but the virtual certification doesn’t say that you’re a good speaker, it doesn’t say that you’ve been in business for a long time, it doesn’t say that you’ve earned a certain amount of money, it doesn’t talk about your professionalism, it’s just a stamp of approval saying that you are good on zoom, that you know how to use zoom, you know how to use those tools and you’ve got good lighting and sound. So, it doesn’t diminish from the CSP, the CPA   any of those, over in Europe, there’s other designations, but it does it doesn’t take away or compete with those at all. It’s adjunct to any of them and goes right beside them.

Max: That that makes a ton of sense to me. And I think also, I like the idea that it’s in service to the professional meeting planners and the people that have to make those decisions so it’s actually an aid to them to know beyond just the CSP, are you ready to perform professionally universal environment? So, that gives them a leg up in their decision-making process and makes life, I imagine a whole lot easier for them.

Dave: Yeah, you’re absolutely right and we’ve heard that. We’ve heard great feedback from the…

Taylorr: Because I was curious about that.

Dave: Organizers who are doing research and looking for speakers that when they see that badge on a speaker, that’s a very quick and easy plus for that speaker compared with one that doesn’t have it because it just saves them the time of having to figure that out and time’s a big deal for event organizers.

Max: Totally.

Taylorr: That’s the thing that we too been talking to our students about because we’ll have this question pop up, like, you know, is it really worth getting the virtual certification? And this is the very first thing we see. It’s like, if you can do anything to ease the customer journey and give them more confidence in your ability, there is no wrong that can be done by having a certification in your back pocket to designate that.

Dave: Yeah, that’s absolutely right. I mean… and there are speakers who have pointed out hey, look getting this badge, isn’t going to instantly make my phone ring off the hook, it’s not going to instantly fill my account. Of course, it’s not.

Taylorr: If anyone knows a badge let me know, I’d like to have that badge.

Dave: Yeah, if there were badge that could do that, fantastic. So, of course, it’s not magical, but like you said, anything you can do to ease the buyers decision-making process, that’s a point for you and why would you not do that?

Max: Yeah, for sure. I mean, it’s more… it sounds like as I’m listening to you, it’s more about differentiating yourself as being easy to work with, which is something that we constantly emphasize is be user-friendly be easy to work with, don’t lower the barrier of entry. If somebody is taking a hard look at you as a professional speaker, as a thought leader, and they want to connect you to their organization, or maybe somebody that they’re representing, you definitely want to make that process all the more easier for them to select you over and above another person.

Dave: Put all the grease you can on those skids.

Taylorr: So, well, I mean, are we in October?

Dave: Can you believe it? I know.

Taylorr: I cannot. My mind blown thinking about that. I mean, it’s been seven months since March, which is really where I feel like things kind of took a turn. February we could feel it, March it really kind of started to go and I don’t know about you, but it was kind of around June or so where we started to see things kind of, I wouldn’t say, pick back up to where they were normally, absolutely not, but we started to see some money flow, which was kind of encouraging. I mean, over these last seven months, especially after talking with so many virtual speakers now and having those conversations with event planners and confirming that their lives are easier as a result of having the certification. I mean, what are you hearing from event planners and bureaus and people who are hiring speakers now, and let’s say September and October about bookings for the rest of this year and into next year? I mean, what are you hearing from them?

Dave: That’s a good question, Taylorr and I don’t know that I could point to any super strong, like very clear indicator on things because it’s mixed., We hear different things from different speakers but I am starting to hear more of speakers getting booked onsite. It’s not it’s not by any means restored to where it had been before, but I sort of feel like if we were here in January and then in March, since then January, February, March, we were just in a steep decline. I feel like maybe we’re starting to turn up a little bit right now and we’re still way down here compared with up here, but at least we’re starting to turn up a little bit. I’ve had some of our customers tell us that they have gotten booked for this fall for some October, November, December onsite engagements, these aren’t virtual, this is onsite.

Taylorr: Fascinating.

Dave: And they’re starting to see some onsite engagements for 2021. So, that’s hopeful, right? 

Taylorr: Definitely [cross-talk 12:18].

Dave: I would say that at this point, it’s a trickle, but it’s nice that the streams beginning to flow again. 

Max: Absolutely. 

Dave: Yeah. But I think the other thing that has happened too, is that on both sides of the fence, on both the sellers, the speakers and the buyers, the event organizers, I think we’re beginning to get used to the idea of doing business the way we’re doing business right now. It’s not as weird as it was back in April and May and March.

Taylorr: Yeah.

Dave: And so, we’re sort of getting used to this a little bit and I think event organizers aren’t as hesitant to do a virtual event as they had been in the past. They’ve seen some successes, both in their own organization and in others and it’s given them confidence that hey, this works okay, let’s do some hiring. Let’s hire some speakers for virtual.

Taylorr: I’ve seen a bit of that too. It was… I think, and I think rightfully so. I mean, those first three months, they were kind of scary. They were scary for everybody, where’s the cash going and how are we going to generate business? And I mean, some of these companies, they were battling with a whole different can of worms, they were dealing with Maslow’s hierarchy of needs first before they could even think about bringing in other leadership. So, a quarter passes, March through June and we’re kind of adapt and try and figure it out and then you start to realize that we still can’t live in a world without speakers and thought leaders to help our organization so, let’s try this virtual thing. And yeah, I think we saw a lot of the same things over the last few months is like confidence about virtual has increased and still bringing those thought leaders in but then, like you said earlier, Dave, I mean, we’re seeing some people who are jumping on planes for the first time in what, seven months now, eight months for some people, it almost feels like a different world doing that.

Dave: Yeah. And back in February or March, if you had surveyed a hundred event organizers and asked the how many of you have done a remote event, a virtual event? You know what, this is not scientific, I’m guessing five to 10% maybe had done it. Now, if you asked a hundred event organizers, 90% of them have done it because in the last six months, they’ve all had to do some. And so, like I say, they’re, they’re getting used to the idea, they’re getting more confident in this space and I think that that confidence is going to let booking speakers continue to pick back up as we’re seeing

Max: Nice. As we’re talking, I was thinking about the fact that we get asked this question, it’s the same question, it gets posted us in different ways. But the question is, so when are things going to go back to normal? And just from your seat, you’re talking to a bunch of folks, but on both sides of the fence, like you mentioned, meeting professionals and speakers. What’s your take? I’m wondering what you’re hearing, what you’re seeing.

Dave: I know exactly when things are going to go back to normal. 

Taylorr: Good. 

Dave: Do you want to know?

Taylorr: Absolutely.

Max: Yeah, for sure.

Dave: Never.

Taylorr: Ever.

Max: That is the answer that I was [cross-talk 15:16]. 

Taylorr: That’s right.

Dave: Never is the answer. Things are never going to go back to normal. Obviously, onsite events will come back, we’ll get a vaccine and onsite events we’ll come back because nothing can replace an onsite event, everybody agrees with that. Virtual can be done well and can be very valuable but nothing’s ever going to remove the need or the desire for onsite events. So, those will come back, things will get more normal, but even once we’re fully, COVID free, we’ve spent a year learning how to use this new, it’s not new, but how to use virtual events and they can be really effective and they can be the best choice in a lot of cases. And so, even though we will go back to onsite events it will never be the same as it has been because virtual is going to still stay in the mix. Virtual will continue to be in the mix even when it’s COVID free.

Max: Are you seeing anything from the association side or corporate side where you’re noticing trends in how they’re handling events moving forward? Just anything in the wind or patterns that you’re picking up on and how they’re looking to do this going forward in terms of the mix of hybrid live and virtual.

Dave: Yeah, I mean, we’ve heard of a couple and the couple examples I’m thinking about, Google is one of them, and there were a couple other large corporations who have said for some of their meetings for this particular conference every year, for this particular meeting every year for the foreseeable future, we’re going to do this virtually. And so, there are going to be some permanent changes, things will never be completely back the way that they were, even though onsite will certainly be restored to much of what it had been before, there will be permanent changes as a result of this. 

Taylorr: Yeah.

Max: Yeah.

Taylorr: When I think about this conversation too, because we’re in the same boat, like things are never going to go back to normal and I’m kind of okay with that, to be honest, because I feel like the events industry has kind of been in this weird kind of phase, especially between 2010 and 2020, where we’ve had all of this technology to go virtual and much more so over the last five years, but in a way, being able to run virtual events and conferences and work with virtually really allows more companies to get exposure, to bringing in thought leaders and speakers in a way that they may not have had that in the past. A small business can afford to bring in a speaker or a thought leader to do something virtual and they don’t need to put on an event that’s going to cost them six figures to rent a hotel and bring in the catering and bring their employees and all of those things. In a way we’ve kind of democratize the usage of thought leadership into companies and if anything, I feel like there’s going to be more opportunity on the table to get in front of more companies that previously just didn’t have the exposure to thought leadership in the past.

Dave: We totally agree with that Taylorr, in fact, and I’m not ready to talk about any sort of specifics, but here at eSpeakers HQ, we’ve got some ideas in the works for leveraging that and helping speakers get used in a different way than they’ve been used in the past. 

Max: Nice. 

Dave: And I won’t go into more detail than that, but we think the speakers that are your customers and our customers, I mean, they’ve got so much to offer businesses and like you said there’s a lot of companies who can’t afford to pay somebody a hundred thousand or 50,000 or maybe even 10,000 to have them in for a keynote. And so, we’re working on some ways that we can help speakers get used in a variety of ways that we’ll let them get used in places they can’t use right now.

Taylorr: Ooh, fascinating. [Cross-talk 19:24]. We’ve board games and these juicy details that we have to [inaudible 19:28]. It’s going to be a loaded podcast. 

Dave: I’ll mention something else about this too, and I’m sure that your students have seen some of the same thing or you’ve seen it in your students, but whenever one of our customer says hey, you know what, I’m going to hunker down and wait for this to blow over, and then I can go back and do what I’ve been doing.

Taylorr: The pausers as we call them.

Max: Oh my gosh. 

Dave: Yeah. That’s a losing strategy. It’s a losing strategy. Don’t hunker down, don’t wait for this to blow over. Things will go back toward normal, but they’re not going to be what they were before and it’s going to take some time to. This is throwing darts at a board, but the most reliable vaccine estimates I’ve heard are next summer 2021. 

Taylorr: Yes. 

Dave: And nobody wants to put their business on pause for that long.

Taylorr: No, we can’t put our businesses until that point in time. 

Dave: Yeah, it does not work.

Max:  Not reasonably, for sure.

Dave: Not unreasonably. So, not without hitting the food stamps.

Taylorr: Yeah, that’s right. 

Dave: I mean, we’ve all got to eat. So, don’t hunker down and wait for this to blow over, you got to learn to play in this space and not only because you need to eat for the next year, but because when it’s back, you’re still going to need those skills. The skills that you get learning to survive right now are still going to be in play even when we’re back to doing a lot of onsite. So, don’t hunker down, you need to learn to play in this sandbox right now.

Taylorr: Totally. We’ve been comparing this a lot recently, it was based on this article, Dave, I think I even shared it with you a while back, but it was kind of comparing the events industry to the Napster moment.

Dave: Oh, yeah.

Taylorr: [Cross-talk 21:19] the early 2000s of the music industry when streaming took off for the first time and previously people bought CDs and records and eight tracks and vinyl before that, and music industry was hot until streaming came along, kind of tank the industry early 2000s, but what they don’t really talk about in that article is that the money was just repurposed. So, yeah, they had to figure out how to make money from streaming, but now they also had video content platforms where when they put their music on there, they got advertising money and different sponsorships because of their music and licensing deals became way more apparent and because of the media age, really between 2000 and 2010, and then once 2010 came along then, all of the revenue basically started increasing much like it was in the early 2000s. So, just to kind of build on that point, like the money I don’t think is gone, it’s just repurposed basically. And how you deliver your thought leadership is going change and developing those skills now is what’s going make you that much more stable over the next five ,10. I mean, look, if you can adapt your thought leadership business now and come out on the other side, what else is going to hold you back as you continue to grow your business? I don’t think much. [Cross-talk 22:35]

Dave: Back to your analogy, you imagine a record label who had said look, we just need to batten the hatches until CDs come back, until this stream thing blows over and CDs come back, we’re just going to batten the hatches till then. I mean, they’re dead now. If they said that they’re dead.

Taylorr: That’s exactly right. So, on that note, I mean, what are you seeing successful speakers doing right now in this time? Those who have kind of taken the reins and run with them. I mean, you get to see a lot of… we talked about this a couple of times, but both sides of the fence. I mean, if you could pinpoint a couple pieces of advice from what you’re seeing other successful speakers do what do you think those are?

Dave:  I’ll give you one. I’ll give you one idea and this is not a new idea, but any of our listeners who have not picked up on this yet are going to benefit from thinking about this. Some of the most successful speakers that I’ve seen over the last few years, and it’s been amplified by what we’re going through right now, are the ones who have figured out that clients are hiring you for a result. They’re not hiring you for entertainment, I mean, unless you’re an entertainer, but for thought leaders, when you hire a thought leader, you’re trying to get a result for your organization. And it’s difficult to get a result in just 45 minutes on stage and so the thought leaders who deliver their keynote as the beginning of a campaign instead of the beginning and the end are having success now, and as I said, that is being amplified now in this virtual that that’s even more valuable than it had been in the past. And so, what I mean by that is that I get onstage, I do my 45-minute keynote and for the next six months, I’m back on doing a 15 minute webinar with the same group of people once a month for six months to follow up and really reinforce the ideas that I taught in my keynote.

Or I’ve got e-learning, I’ve got e-courses that I take that audience through over a period of time after my keynote and that really reinforces and drives home those ideas. And so, the speakers who are making their keynote a part of a bigger plan are able to deliver longer lasting benefits and more pronounced benefits for their customers than speakers who are just doing a keynote and I think that’s a really successful strategy. And it’s what… again, that the person… we tell our customers, imagine that you are the person who’s writing out that $5,000 check or that 10,000 or $30,000 check. You want to get something for that. 

Taylorr: Absolutely. So, you’ve got to deliver. You’ve got to deliver some real value and some real change and some real improvement in that organization, whatever it is that they’re struggling with. 

Taylorr: Yeah. And think beyond the keynote. 

Dave: You got to think beyond the keynote.

Max: It really does come down to impact. I mean, we talk about this a ton in SpeakerFlow University from deliverability, if you’re going to make the most impact for someone and you’re measuring what you’re doing as coming to the table to really comprehend their challenges. And I always focus on the fact that any good sales conversation should come down to one question, which is going to be what are the outcomes that you’re trying to create? Because that’s what I want to be a part of. If a speaker or a thought leader is going to partner with any organization around getting impact, that actually is going to move the needle for them, especially the way that you’re talking about it Dave over a period of time to kind of get that message embedded into practices and give them real take ways that are going to make a difference in the culture and the productivity that’s the kind of, that’s the kind of thing that anybody that’s writing out, a check for 10 grand to 30 grand, those are the types of things that they want to see because it’s measurable ROI for their investment in that relationship to bring that thought leader to the table. 

One of the things that popped in mind, because I know we’ve kind of danced around this a little bit in the conversation, but I wanted to ask you, is it enough then to just take that same mentality of the live keynote and say okay, I’m going to do what I did and I’m going to move it to a virtual environment, I’m just going to kind of bring it over here now I’m on camera and is it really that simple to do that and just call it good?

Dave: You can get away with that for a little while, but if you want to differentiate yourself, it’s not going to cut it. One of the analogies that I’ve shared with some of our speaker clients, when they ask that same question is at the dawn of television. People had been used to doing radio shows where you’ve got a group of actors and sound effects, people standing around a microphone doing these radio shows that would go out over radio. Well, you can imagine when television comes along the very first time that they do a TV show, what if all they done was just point a camera at that group of people standing around a microphone? You know what I’m saying? 

Taylorr: You’re entertaining.

Dave: Yeah. I mean, you’re missing out on the whole advantage of this new medium and this virtual presentations, remote presentations, it’s a new medium.

Max: For sure.

Dave: It’s to your onsite keynote what television was to radio in some ways. And there’s so many new opportunities for things to do in this new medium and you got to take advantage of it, the speakers who are just going to do their radio, play into a camera are missing out and they’re going to get left behind. So, I’ve seen speakers do… one of my friends, I thought this was kind of clever of him, what he did. And by the way, none of these are one size fits all, this could work for some and not work for others, but he would prerecord his presentation. And so, when he’s ready to go, he’s going to play back his prerecorded presentation for this audience and while that’s playing, he’s on the chat in the zoom meeting chatting with the audience, answering questions about this. And they know that it’s him and he got some good interaction out of that and that was a cool experience. You can’t do that site, you can’t chat with the audience while you’re on stage and now you can in virtual, it’s a new way to use this medium.

Taylorr: Really get to unlock your creative potential.

Dave: Yeah.

Taylorr: It’s was funny, one of our students in SFU did this brilliant thing, he showed me it the other day. So, if you’re listening, you know who you are tell me you’ve heard this. But basically, did a prerecorded segment and he’s a musician, he like brings the guitar out and does the whole thing. And what he does is he did a prerecorded segment and then he spliced three different versions of himself playing a song together.

Dave: Oh, cool.

Taylorr: Like two different versions of his guitar, another version of him in the same room wearing the same shirt, playing harmonica but because you can do all this in post-production, you can basically insert yourself three different times in a prerecorded session and interact with yourself for the audience. I mean, it’s kind of a fun time to be able to play with these things when you couldn’t really do that before and in a live environment.

Dave: Get creative. One of my good friends in the business bought… It would be a white board, but it’s kind of a light board, you can draw on it with a pen and you can pump that into zoom as a shared [cross-talk 30:27]. 

Max: Nice.

Dave: So, he now does a lot of his presentation, he talks and he writes things on this whiteboard, which then comes into zoom as a shared screen and he uses that a lot, it’s a great reinforcement tool. He couldn’t have done that on stage, he’s using the new medium that way. If you’re not using Q and A, for heaven sake use Q and A.If you’re not using chat rooms, chat rooms are very popular, very powerful tool. Breakout rooms, very powerful, very popular, the majority of the speakers that have certified that’s one of the questions that we ask on that virtual presenter certification we talked about before, that’s one of the questions we ask, it’s not required to pass, but we do ask it and we show it on their certificate if you use breakout rooms regularly. And most presenters do. They use breakout rooms, which is a thing you can’t do again with an onsite keynote. You can’t do breakout rooms with that.

Taylorr: Definitely.

Dave: So, yes, it’s not enough to just take your keynote and do it into a camera, you got use the medium.

Max: For sure. 

Dave: Yeah. I mean, if anything has come out of this conversation today, it’s there’s tons of room for opportunity here, even though things have changed and we might be a little bit adverse to that at first. I mean, there’s still loads of opportunity, we’re still seeing some momentum climb since we took that initial hit and things are changing and I don’t necessarily know if it’s for worse. I feel like generally it’s for better.

Dave: I totally believe it’s for better. I totally believe it’s for better. Obviously, we have a long way to go before we’re even back to where we were, but I think we’ve learned some new things that are going allow us to go further than we were before once we’re out of this.

Taylorr: Definitely. Well…

Dave: Which is exciting.

Taylorr: Dave, this has been an awesome episode. Thank you so much for sharing all of your insights with us…

Max: Yeah, for sure.

Taylorr: And just validating everything we’re seeing on our side too and just being able to learn about what you’re experiencing being on both sides of the aisle. And as you know, everyone listening too we’re all about creating value here. So, what are some of the things you’re working on that our listeners can benefit from?

Dave: Boy, Taylorr you what if got listeners who I know we talked about this earlier, but if you’ve got listeners who have not yet got their certified virtual presenter badge.

Taylorr: I’m sure we do.

Dave: Then for heaven sakes. And especially if you’re an eSpeakers customer at the plus or pro level, it’s free. So, for heaven sakes, go get it and it’s less than a hundred bucks otherwise, so it’s either free or cheap. And like we said anything that can make the decision for the buyers easier is a good thing to have. So yeah, come get your certified virtual presenter badge from a signup and you just go to eSpeakers.com, there’s a link right on the homepage for certified virtual presenter. Just click that and you’ll be on your way.

Taylorr: Perfect. And for everybody listening, I will be sure to drop a link in the show notes, right to where you can go and register to get your virtual certification. David, again, thank you so much for being here. It was really a pleasure to have you.

Max: Great to see you Dave.

Dave: My pleasure.

Taylorr:  For everyone listening, don’t forget to subscribe. And if you want more awesome resources like this, check out the show notes and of course, speaker.flow.com/resources. We’ll see you next time. Thank you so much for chiming in. I just wanted to take a second to thank our sponsor Auxbus. Auxbus is the all in one suite of tools you need to run your podcast. And it’s actually what we run here at SpeakerFlow for technically speaking, it makes planning podcast simple, it makes recording podcasts simple, it even makes publishing podcasts to the masses simple. And quite honestly, Technically Speaking, wouldn’t be up as soon as it is without Auxbus. Thank you so much Auxbus. And if you are interested in checking Auxbus out, whether you’re starting a podcast or you have one currently get our special offer aubus.com/speakerflow, or click the link below in our show notes.