S. 1 Ep. 27 – S.Y.S.T.E.M.S: How To Do More With Less

Taylorr: Welcome to another episode of technically speaking. We are super excited about today’s guest inventor and expert in tech and innovation. Julie Holmes, Julie, welcome to the show.

Julie: Thank you so much, Taylorr and Austin, it’s a pleasure to be here.

Taylorr:  Definitely [cross-talk 00:32]. 

Austin: Have you. 

Taylorr: So, for those of you listening and to don’t know who Julie is, Julie is a serial inventor and international keynote speaker, also fellow PSA, UK, who has created awesome apps, who loves Speaker Flow CRM, shameless plug, tiny tech, heard of Hey Mike, and delightful digital products with clever customers in over 50 countries. In her pre speaker life, Julie spent 20 years designing and launching enterprise software products to companies big and small. When she has an outbuilding cool new product, she travels the world and the internet, helping entrepreneurs and companies to innovate product ties and embrace technology so that they can build the businesses they’ve always dreamed about. Julie, it is awesome to have you on the show. One of the things we love to ask, right starting out is just how you got into the space? What led you down the path of being an expert, as an inventor and innovator, and especially in technology, how did you get here?

Julie: Well, as an inventor, it’s because I grew up on a farm and I know that we’re all kind of Midwest folks here, and needless to say, I grew up in the time where it was like, if you were bored, they found things for you to do so it was really key to never be bored and to never say, I don’t know what I should do right now. I was always out building stuff and there was always junk laying around that you could assemble and I was trapping animals for fun and making pets and whatever else, I was super entertained that way. And then from a tech perspective, of course, that all comes down to being in tech. It was one of those things that when I started in consultancy it was still a fairly new industry. My original consultants work was an AS 400, If anybody wants to go nerd out with me.

We used to do demos on software and we used to put an AS 400 on like a little luggage cart and wheel it around and take our own AS 400 with us. And so way back in the day, that was the beginning of tech, and I just found that for me, those conversations, I just couldn’t stand seeing people do things in like awful horrible ways. Nothing frustrated me more and just broke my heart more than seeing a client with 85 manual steps and paper everywhere and total and utter chaos and disorganization, it used to drive me crazy. And I have a labeler and I’m not afraid to use it. And I think that pretty much sums me up as a person.

Austin: I can relate to that actually. I think that we probably share some similar personality types. Although I do think it’s funny. We were having conversation right before this started. And you mentioned that you also don’t mind riffing, you were on radio, you don’t mind coming up with stuff on the spot so sort of a duality happening here where very organized, want things to work smoothly and easily, but also comfortable in spaces where things may not feel quite as organized so you strike me as a [cross-talk 03:34] person.

Julie: What’s interesting about that, Austin. What’s really interesting, of course, I had this conversation with a friend of mine not too long ago, and my education is in communication, so I have a couple of degrees in communication and I spent a ton of time being trained on how to speak extemporaneously. So, there’s a belief that oh, I don’t need a script so I can just wing it or whatever but what’s really happening is I’ve actually outlined everything in my head, and so I’m building and following an outline mentally, even when I’m speaking off the cuff.

Austin: Wow. So, it’s more organized than it may seem, even if that’s not how you’re projecting it.

Julie: Sure, let’s go with that.

Austin: I think that’s cool. So, I’m curious, part of this organizational process comes into having systems to help you stay organized and this is the theme of our conversation today. You may have seen listeners in the title, that systems were an acronym and this is on purpose systems is our favorite acronym. It stands for save yourself some time, energy, money, and stress. This is not patented, maybe it should be. So [cross-talk 04:44] yes, and I know that you’re a fan of systems too so why do you think that having systems, just as a human being, even for yourself, but especially in the context of having a business why is that important through your eyes?

Julie: Oh my gosh. Well, it’s important for all the reasons you just listed in your acronym. I think the biggest thing about systems is that systems free you up to be your best, most creative, most profitable self. Anything that you systemize is something that you were wasting time doing before, so anything that’s not systemized that should be, means that it’s eating up your energy, it’s eating up your creativity, it’s eating up your hopes and dreams, it’s eating up your space in your room, it’s not leaving you any space to be your best self.

Austin: Yeah. I would agree with that. A hundred percent I would agree with that.

Taylorr: Totally.

Austin: I think that systems, sometimes are seen as these processes that we have to follow like rules that we don’t particularly like maybe, but that we’re doing them for the greater good or something. But I don’t know, every morning I wake up and I brush my teeth, that’s a small system that I have in my life that makes me feel ready for the day. And I think probably most of us have systems like this that we don’t even know are happening so I liked what you said, just because I think that it brings up that point, that systems are applicable in a lot of different instances.

Julie: I think you actually raise a really interesting point around systems Austin, and that is that when people don’t understand why something is systemized, then they get really frustrated. Those are procedures for no reason. And so, one of course, key element of systems, it’s one thing when you’re just doing systems for yourself, but it’s another thing when you’re responsible for creating systems for other people. Now you both now that I’m a parent and I have two kids who are both teenagers right now, and one of my kids has ADHD, fairly significant ADHD. And one of the things that we’ve had to do over the years is to create systems for her. But I couldn’t just give her systems because if I just said, here’s the list of 50 things you have to do, she was already like, well, this is a huge waste of my time. I want no part of this. You’ve got to be kidding me.

Instead, we had to sit down and talk about why do we have a system. Like when we go to clean a space, why do we have a system for how we go about cleaning a space? We do it because it’s easier to remember so we don’t have to think about it, so we didn’t have to try so hard so it doesn’t take you so long. So, I think there’s a big lesson in what you said, Austin, that anybody who’s working on systems and has other people that are involved in those systems, your first challenge is have you sat down and actually articulated the clarity of the system? have you clearly defined the system? And then, have you explained the value of it?

Taylorr: Definitely. This is a fascinating conversation because not only have we talked about systems and the technological perspective, but also just having systems in our day-to-day life or things that are undocumented, but we do anyway. And they really, like you said, provide structures that you can be your most creative self, and this applies to personal and professional lives, of course, but if you’re building systems for yourself and those systems, you don’t understand why they’re there or how they work, that can be incredibly frustrating and kind of be a detriment for you. But if you do understand why they’re there, not only are they going to be more impactful for you from a creative sense, it’s going to free up bandwidth, but if you know how they work, now you can teach other people. So, in the business scenario, you can now offload some of that work as your team continues to grow. And I think often, the people that we have conversations with, and maybe you see the same thing in the work that you do, Julie, but people are quick to just say, oh, I can get a VA or I can outsource that and we’re going to call it good and someone else will deal with it without ever having the system in place. Does that work from your perspective? 

Julie: No. 

Taylorr: Yeah.

Julie: Sorry, did you want a longer answer than that?

Taylorr: That’s exactly right.

Julie: It depends. The truth is, it actually depends. I’m a big believer that everyone should identify where their sweet spot is, where are they most comfortable. And wherever you are not most comfortable, if your business still needs it, or if your lifestyle needs it, forget about just your business, but there are certain things that we are all naturally very good at, but there are other areas where we’re always going to struggle or it’s going to be a bigger reach for us to do something. And in that instance, you hire that reach. That’s where we kind of get into this, like do what you’re really good at and hire the rest out. 

However, if you’re going to hire the rest out, you better make sure that they’re not somebody who is exactly like you, you need to hire for the skills that you’re missing. So, if you’re not someone who’s a systems thinker or if you’re not someone who can document or articulate the systems in your business or that you need to have, then you need to hire somebody who’s good at that. Somebody who that is their natural inclination and natural skillset, otherwise you’re just going to, both of you stare at each other and look at a blank page and then wonder why nothing happened.

Taylorr: Yeah, definitely. It’s a mix of not hiring the same person, and also hiring of course for the role that you need them to do, but also, if the, the role that you’re hiring or trying to outsource requires any strategy, for example that you’re also not skilled at, then you don’t want to hire a tasker, someone who just does what you tell them to do, you need a strategic person as well. So, that hiring process almost has layers. Not only do you have to try and find somebody who fills in your gaps, but they fill in your gaps either in a strategic way and or an implementational way.

Julie: Yeah. And there’s definitely a good opportunity to kind of talk to other people before you start hiring. I know we aren’t really talking about hiring necessarily, but if you can find somebody who does look, act and think the way you would need them to, even if you’re not hiring them, you can ask them to help you come up with the right interview questions, because chances are, if it’s not your sweet spot, you’re not going to know what to ask them anyway. You’re not going know what to ask them for examples. It’s one of the things as consultants and as business experts, and as kind of thought leaders that we should be offering as part of our services is to help people find other people like us. What do they need to ask? What kinds of things should they be searching for? And that’s just another type of system that we offer and sell.

Austin: That’s even contextualized in terms of hiring with what you said, but I think that’s true for anything. If we know that there’s a major gap in our business, we should go and find somebody that can at least advise us and give us tips and tricks on what we can do to make our lives easier. This is starting to sound like shameless self-promotion, since I know that’s like what we do here at Speaker Flow. But the point is, regardless of whether you’re hiring somebody to fill this role, or if you just know that you’re struggling with something, sometimes all it takes is just asking somebody that thinks differently than you to be able to ask you the questions, to find out what you really need.

Julie: I think that’s completely true and I think it is hard as a small business person. One of the most valuable growths that I have ever had as an entrepreneur and a business owner is to say, do you know what? I’m actually not good at that. And that was really hard because, well, you guys know me, but for those of you that don’t know me out there, like I’m a little bit of an A type personality. I like to be really good at stuff, I like to be really good at everything. And a lot of us end up in this line of work because we believe that, we’re kind of perfectionist, we think we can do it better than other people for the most part, which is why we then hire ourselves out as consultants and then become experts because we think we’ve been around the block and we think we do a great job of it.

And it takes a lot of introspection and then a lot of courage, I think to sit down and go, do you know what? Here’s, what I’m not good at. I’ve got a million systems and I’m great at coming up with systems, I can tell you I’m terrible at follow-up. Terrible. I am constantly a moving forward person so if there’s anything in my task list that requires me to back up and go backward and do anything behind me, I have people that help me with that.  I have an assistant who goes around and basically kind of sweeps along behind me. She closes up all the conversation, she finishes up all the paperwork, but it’s about making sure that you know where your strengths are, how that fits into the big model that you’re creating in your business and the way you want to spend your time. That’s the other thing. Systems free you up so that you don’t have to spend as much time doing stuff you don’t want to do and you don’t enjoy.

Taylorr: Yeah. 

Austin: That is so true. I absolutely agree with that.

Taylorr: I think we’re kind of heading down this path, but one of the questions we get asked all the time is when’s the right time to have systems? Is it just starting out? Are they only for huge companies? How do people incorporate systems into their business and win?

Julie: If you asked my kids, you should have had systems from the time that you were about three onward. In all seriousness, you should always have systems. And to Austin’s point earlier, we all do have systems, sometimes we don’t recognize them that way. I find it fascinating, to me systems are everywhere. I am a design thinker, I’m a systems thinker, I’m super engineer oriented. And I have a general rule of thumb that’s three times time and I automate. If I’m doing the same thing three times, and I am irritated every time I have to do it, then I start to look to automate it. And that’s not just through technology, that’s anywhere. If I have to walk too far to get a utensil, when I’m cooking a particular item, I can you that by the third time that utensil has relocated. I’m not searching for the same stuff over and over again. 

If I have to tell my kids where something goes, when they were little, and I used to have to say, no, the Lego’s go in here, the third time a label went on that box and we didn’t discuss it again that they go in the box that says Legos. Everything that we do that can free us up from having to be repetitive, that’s the beauty of it. Yes, technology can help us do it and I’m a huge fan of leveraging technology, especially because it enables us to do a lot more complex tasks than just like, oh, I’m going to move my toothpaste closer to the sink. But yeah, I’m definitely one of those people that like, I might rearrange somebody else’s house when I go over, [cross-talk 15:37].

Austin: To come over anytime you like.

Julie: Few things bring me more joy; somebody is like my pantry is a mess. I’ll be like, oh my God, I’ll be right over.

Austin: And I’m bringing my label maker.

Julie: I’m bringing my label maker. I am in.

Austin: Yeah. we hear all the time, it’s like people feel like they need to graduate or something to a point where systems become required. And I’m just kind of summarizing what was just said, but it’s really not about you getting to any specific point in your business, it’s not about the life cycle of your business. It’s really just about what’s repetitive and obnoxious to you. Whatever it is that’s not allowing you to be doing the things that you enjoy doing and are good at doing and are creating value, those things need to get offloaded to a person or to a system or to technology that can ease that up [cross-talk 16:34].

Julie: I’ll tell you the other reason why I think that we should be encouraging systems and embracing systems early in our business is that the longer you go without systems, the messier, everything gets.

Taylorr: Amen.

Julie: And you will ultimately find yourself not in a place where you don’t then just get to go, let’s have a system starting now. It’s a bit like going your whole year without tracking any of your finances and then you get to your accountant and your accountant is like, yeah, we’re going to need receipts. And you’re like, what? Receipts. Whoa, that’s crazy, I haven’t been keeping track of those. And you’ve got receipts in shoes and in old purses, and you’ve got them in pockets and inside drawers and now you’re going to spend a week just looking for receipts. And how frustrating is that if you could’ve just put them all in the same place as you went along. So, I definitely think that if you are new to business or in the newer side of business, and it’s never too late, start those kinds of core organizational systems early on, even if you decide to change that system or upgrade that system later, you’re not starting from scratch. You’ve got a clean foundation to work with.

Taylorr: Definitely. 

Austin: I would be remiss not to ask this question. Do you have any tips for those that unfortunately did not act early and are now having to dig out of having no systems? Is there any strategy that you can recommend to help people get on top of it later on when maybe they do have to do a bunch of un-digging?

Julie: Yes. It’s interesting, it was one of those things I used to find really funny when my kids were little and I would walk into a bedroom and I would be like, what happened in here? This place is crazy. What kind of tornado made it into the house, it just hit your room? How did that happen? And we used to actually sit down and talk about how do you break big tasks like that down into smaller pieces. And it was all about taking a big, huge mess and breaking it into piles and then sorting out the piles. So, for example, if you were talking about a bedroom, we might say, okay, here’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to gather up all the clothes and we’re just going to make a pile of clothes.

Then we’re going to gather up all the books and we’re going to just make a pile of books. And then we’re going to gather up all the paper and we’re just going to make a pile. We would kind of break things into chunks, which is exactly the same thing you do with your business. You pick an area of your business and you start to just put things into folders. Imagine for a second, that you didn’t have an actual system for receipts or for finances or for organizing the papers in your business, your starting level would simply be, I’m just going to take all of my receipts and I’m going to shove them in a drawer. I’m not going to catalog them, I’m not going to scan them, I’m not going to do whatever. But instead of having this, I’m not going to put a proper system in place, so I’m not going to do anything.

We have a medium level there. We have a starting level, which is just get it corralled. Even if you can’t necessarily get it organized, get it corralled. One of the systems that I’m a huge fan of and if anybody can just take the time to sit down and do this is, and in fact, you guys will know that I put some of this into the CRM when we were working on Speaker Flow CRM, so shameless plug, in there is one of the systems that used to drive me crazy. And that was all around all of my subscriptions and apps and tools and all of my memberships. We buy all this stuff and if you’re wondering, if you should have a system, if you have ever gone to buy something and you realize you already own it, you needed a system. Right away, there’s your indicator, you needed a system.

If you’ve ever had a subscription and it renewed, and you didn’t see that coming, and you were like, what? Adobe renewed for $576 this year, how’d that happen? You needed a system. Sometimes systems are as easy as I’m just going to put it on a list, or I’m just going to put it in folder. Start there because it’s going to save you money and as a new business person, you can’t afford to waste money. The number of people that buy tools, they already have without intending to. And I mean like if you’ve got Canva and then you go off and you buy Carrillo, and then you go off and you buy Adobe, and now you’ve got five tools that all do graphic design, did you mean to do that? Are you sure? Or did you forget that you had already paid for this other tool? So, to answer your question more cleanly, Austin, basically it’s break it up into chunks, and then just do a first level organization of that chunk until you can get back to it and do it properly.

Austin: I like that. It’s a big process so starting small, I think is where you have to start. And plus, even if you’re just putting stuff into piles, it feels pretty good to see like, oh, there’s my pile of clothes. At least they’re all in one spot, they’re not hung up, I don’t even know if they’re clean or not, but at least they’re my clothes. So, I think that’s good. That’s a great answer. 

Taylorr: One of things that I find so awesome about this conversation is we started out by saying generally speaking, business owners, experts, consultants, especially we can tend to be type A and perfectionist. So naturally to your point earlier, Julie, we get a system where we start thinking about a system and we’re like, yeah, I can’t build it out the way I have it in my head perfectly so we’re not going to do anything. And we also hear a lot of the times that often people want systems that they can just set and forget and it just does the thing always. And I find that there’s always an iterative component to systems. To your point, once you have your clothes in a pile, well, now you might want to sort them by color or actually hang them up. And once you have your papers in a pile, you might want to organize those for your receipts to drag that analogy out a bit further, you might want to go a step deeper. It really seems that systems are really just as much about the iteration and just starting somewhere and knowing that it’s going to improve with time and as it becomes more of a pain point. But it sounds like we just need to get started the second we identify any repetition or any disorganization as a result of not having systems. Is that right?

Julie: I would certainly agree with that. And I think that iteration is really key because even though I love it when people talk about plug and play systems and oh, I’m going to go buy this thing. I’m going to go buy this thing and then I’m going to like turn it on and there’s probably not a single person listening right now who has bought something and literally plugged it in and it did exactly what they wanted and everything just was like magic. It would be great if that worked that way and I think there are rare occasions where you get really close. But the truth is, is that the way we work, the way each individual person works and the way each individual person thinks means that we have to be prepared to tailor everything so that it is the most appropriate for us. And systems are not generic, a good system is for you. And if it doesn’t fit you perfectly, you can go and buy a pair of jeans off the rack and maybe you’re lucky, maybe they fit great. But we also have every single one of us bought a piece of clothing that we were like, we really liked the look of it, but then we wore we were like, it chafes. And so, you can either let it keep chafing or you can tailor it to make it work for you.

Austin: Even my toaster requires a little bit of fine tuning to make sure that it doesn’t burn my toast. Think about something like a sales process. That comes up quite often and that’s something you want to systematize. There’s like 30 components there so if you think that you can make that just plugin play work, but yet you still have to plug in your toaster and then turn the dial a little bit to make sure it doesn’t burn it, there’s a disconnect happening there, I think.

Julie: I’m fascinated by your toaster.

Austin: I have strong opinions about my toaster. I do want to kind of segue into a slightly related topic though, that was just brought up, which is this idea that I’m going to create the system that perpetually works for me forever. And I think that usually, that ends up landing somewhere in the realm of talking about automating. Because a system itself could be as simple as I go in the morning and I brush my teeth before I start my day, but the toothbrush isn’t brushing my teeth for me, I’m taking that action and most systems do require you to take some action. However, with technology specifically, there are some really cool ways that we can automate and I think automation is a key part of systems for a lot of businesses or at least they want them to, or people want automation to be a key part of their businesses. So, from your seat, and especially as the technology expert here, the innovator, how do you feel like automation fits into systems? And do you find that there are specific times where it’s appropriate or where it’s not?

Julie: Sure. Automation is one way that we fulfill a system. So, the system is the overarching process. Sometimes we can get tools and technology that help us to automate all or part of that process and sometimes they’re systems that we do manually. Remembering a system is all about freeing me up mentally and physically and financially to do more, sometimes that happens with technology. There are times when we invest in technology and it actually creates more work, it ends up taking us more time, more energy, more frustration, and certainly more money than what we had expected and we need to be prepared to get rid of those systems. That’s hard for people to make the decision that sometimes the system that they’ve tried doesn’t fit. Doesn’t fit them, doesn’t fit their business, whatever that might be.

We see that a lot. Of course, when people change systems, they’ve invested in something, the people that invest in a CRM and then they come over to Speaker Flow CRM. Again, it takes a big decision to say this other system isn’t working for me and I’m prepared to take the time and the energy to go in and find a better system. So, I’m a huge fan of technology for automation and especially as technology improves and grows the things that you can do with technology is amazing. I have a podcast, a live video show that I do every week with Maricon called The Smarter Sales Show. It’s on the Sales Experts Channel on Tuesday, so feel free to tune in. But we look at that entire process of creating that show and taking that show and slicing it up and making it into reusable content that pads are week-out and that fills up that week, we also have somebody who assists us with that show, we have somebody who supports us from a sales perspective after that show, there’s a lot of moving parts to that. 

And especially with two of us involved in the absence of a system, we wouldn’t get nearly as much done. And some of the technology that we’re leveraging to do that not only helps us to do it faster, but it helps us to do it consistently. And that’s the other huge benefit of systems is leveraging technology to create consistent results. So, its things reminding you to do things, that’s about consistency. Are you consistently following up with prospects? On our show we are using a tool called repurpose.io, and that tool allows us to take our entire zoom show automatically, we record it on zoom, it takes it automatically and there it will automatically convert it into our podcast and our audio file, it will automatically convert it into a YouTube video and put the top and tail on it, it waits out there for us to go and do the snippets so that we can automatically put the snippets and once we define all the snippets and put tops and tails and loads it straight onto YouTube, it takes our show notes and puts the show notes in there, there are systems where you think, am I adding any value personally, by being involved in this process or am I checking boxes? 

So that’s how I kind of decide what needs to be systemized particularly with technology. Technology is never going to be personal. The question you ask is, are there things that you should automate and things that you shouldn’t automate? You should automate anything that is basically anybody could do it and get pretty much the same exact result. The things that you shouldn’t automate and you shouldn’t system, well, you should have systems, but the things that you shouldn’t automate with technology are things where you are the only person that can perform that function, or you provide special, unique value to that. Calling a prospect.

Taylorr: Following-up

Julie: Calling a prospect, following up, say thank you cards, what is it that you can do that nobody else can do and have the same result that you would? That’s what you don’t systemize, everything else you try to automate.

Austin: Yes. I think that’s a good rule of thumb. Really summarizes that nicely. And I the moral of this episode, and I think we’ve chatted about this since we started is systems just allow you to do more with less. And when you’re just starting out or getting rolling, or you want to grow a team, regardless of what life cycle you’re in as a business owner, we always want to do more with less. We want to be more impactful with lower costs, we want to do more gigs with less let’s say effort because not everything is a manual process anymore. So, I love that you highlighted that. And I love that we’ve defined now when we can automate and when we can’t. If you have personal touch points here, it can’t be automated by a system, then don’t. But if it’s not a personal thing and it’s procedural and you’re just ticking boxes, then do. And I think it simplifies this kind of abstract for some idea so thanks for sharing all that.

Julie: I think there’s one more thing I would like to offer around systems, particularly for people who are providing their services as experts. If you are a trainer, a coach, a professional speaker, if you’re a thought leader, an author, you have an obligation, I think, to create systems for your audience. Because whatever you’re teaching them, whatever your message is, if you don’t help them to consume that message, and systems are really a tool that helps people to consume messages effectively. First, do this second, do this third, do this. If you are not delivering that to your clients and your audiences, then they are not going to get the most out of what you’re sharing with them. So, you are doing them in my opinion, a huge disservice. And again, if you’re not a systems thinker, and that’s not a natural strength for you go find somebody who can help you take your great content and your amazing expertise, and have them help you to transform that into checklists, processes, workflows. Have them help you, help your clients better, you will get paid more for that, and they will remember it and appreciate it more. 

Taylorr: Amen. Holy crap.

Austin: Listen to that folks.

Taylorr: That’s exactly where it’s at. 

Julie: Mic drop.

Taylorr: If not for yourself, for them.

Julie: Except that it’s like a Yeti and its attached to [cross-talk 32:48].

Taylorr: Big old sump. Oh man just…

Austin: I love that.

Taylorr: Pure gold.

Austin: Here’s the thing too, less and less people are buying expertise because it they’re getting conceptual advice. They need to see results, there needs to be the implementation behind the concepts and systems allow you to guarantee that whatever outcome you’re telling you can provide somebody will actually come true because you can give them the specific steps and milestones necessary to hit it. So well, well said is my only point. I think that that is a really important note to make. 

Taylorr: Absolutely. So, Julie, speaking of value, as you know, we’re all about creating it for our audience what are you working on right now that our listeners can benefit from?

Julie: Ooh, I got lots of cool fun stuff. So of course, I’m a huge fan of Speaker Flow CRM because that was something we worked on together. And Speaker Flows CRM came into existence because of everything we just talked about .and in fact, one of the big drivers for that was me having so many different apps to try and fulfill the needs of my business. So that was kind of the very beginning, one of the beginning checkmarks for Speaker Flow CRM was, is it going help me get rid of some of my other apps so I can consolidate. So, consolidation big part of automation and systems. So, Speaker Flow CRM is something I continue to work on, which is amazing and then of course, Hey Mike is one of my products that all I would ask of anybody who’s listening when it comes to, Hey Mike is keep your eye out, lots of schools are using, Hey Mike now in some very difficult times so pass the word. Everybody can always use that. And then of course, we’ve got our weekly show that Merit Khan and I do call The Smarter Sales show, which is all about the tech and technique to sell smarter and stress less. And that’s on The Sales Experts channel, but will also be available on our YouTube channel and everywhere that you can find Merit and I.

Taylorr: Perfect. We will have all of those things in the show notes. Julie, thank you so much. It is really been a pleasure to have you here. And as always, don’t forget about all of the mind-blowing free resources, at speakerflow.com/free resources. Thank you so much for chiming in. I just wanted to take a second to thank our sponsor Auxbus. Auxbus is the all-in-one suite of tools you need to run your podcast and it’s actually what we run here at Speaker Flow for Technically Speaking. It makes planning podcasts simple; it makes recording podcasts simple; it even makes publishing podcasts to the masses simple and quite honestly, Technically Speaking wouldn’t be up as soon as it is without Auxbus. Thank you so Auxbus. And if you are interested in checking Auxbus out, whether you’re starting a podcast or you have one currently get our special offer auxbus.com/speakerflow, or click the link below in our show notes.