S. 2 Ep. 20 – Master These 4 Pillars Of Emotional Intelligence To Grow Your Business

Taylorr: Welcome to another episode of Technically Speaking, where your hosts, Taylorr and Austin, And in today’s episode, we are talking about growing your business, maybe not in the way that you are expecting. When it comes to looking for resources to grow your business, chances are emotional intelligence isn’t on the list. Instead it’s sales outreach strategies, marketing strategies, and logical processes that are supposed to produce a result. But the thing about business is it’s all driven through human connection and consequently emotion. And if we can master the fundamentals of intelligence, we set ourselves up for a more productive and impactful business. So to help break these ideas down for us, we invited on Irvine Nugent. Irvine has an esteemed background in emotional intelligence and is one of the most sought after experts on the subject. And today’s episode, we’re talking about the four pillars of emotional intelligence and how we’re remaining aware of them and working to improve them will inevitably grow your business. As always stick around until the end for some awesome resources, and we hope you enjoy this one. See you in there.

Taylorr: Okay, and we are live. Irvine, welcome to the show man. 

Austin: So good to have you

Irvine: Great to be here. Thank you so much. Thanks for inviting me.

Austin: Yeah. Oh, for sure. 

Taylorr: We’ve been looking forward to this one.

Austin: Yes, me too. Oh man. This topic specifically too, we love it. Irvine you’re like one of the most fascinating characters on the planet, as far as I’m concerned. So many things that I’m excited to talk to you about today. First of all, though, I see that you’ve got your Inside Out characters in the background. And so, I just want to address this for the people that are on video and are seeing this go like, hey, I know those people what’s up with the inside out characters.

Irvine: So there’s many layers to this. First layer is it’s just one of the best movies I think that Pixar ever made, and for those who have not seen it, it is must watching. Indeed, whenever I begin a you coaching session, I don’t care what age you are or if you’re the CEO of the largest company in the world, I always say watch it because it really gets into our emotional life, and so often I find that is an area that is not explored and especially in leaders. And so the characters behind me are representations of different emotions. And there are seven universal emotions, but they chose five because it’s easier to remember five, and the movie really goes into our emotional life. And I just think even the term inside out is amazing because that’s really what our emotional life is about, is learning this mystery inside of us and exploring it.

Austin: Yeah, man, I love the movie. It teaches me so something every time I watch it. I’ve seen it like 15 times. So  I’m curious, what are the two that are missing? [Cross-talk 02:50]

Taylorr: Did they like just omit two, or did they kind of blend two into the other two?

Irvine: They blend it because with the different emotions they thought that seven was too much to handle, so there’s contempt and disgusted, so they blended that, and so what you got is discuss was left out and then contempt was there and then surprise. Surprise was left out.

Taylorr: Gotcha.

Irvine: And surprise is the briefest emotion that we have, so it’s kind of not surprising that surprise… in fact, there was an argument that if surprise really was a universal emotion or even an emotion itself. So it’s really interesting. Because surprise is a transitionary emotion. You get surprised and then you move to another emotion, and so then there was debate academically, is that really an emotion or not an emotion? Or is it a transitory emotion towards something else?

Austin: Huh. Wow. I’ve never even thought about that, but that actually makes sense. So surprise, it’s like a catalyst for some other emotion. Does it strengthen an emotion or something if surprise comes around or is it just a self-awareness thing? 

Irvine: Well it’s so quick. So say for example, I’m throwing a surprise party for you, we walk into the room and everyone goes surprise and you’re generally surprise, surprise last half, maybe about a quarter of a second, and then what you’ll do is you’ll move into another emotion. So like the people you see bring an emotion of sadness because you’re just overwhelmed at seeing people or you hate parties, and so you’re angry or you love parties and you’re happy. So surprise will move very quickly into something else. 

Austin: Wow. Huh. So is there like a reason why haunted houses or attractions that scare you lean into surprise so much because it can sort of be the catalyst for that fear emotion that they’re looking for? I’m just curious if that ties into it because I love surprises and I love haunted houses and I wonder if there’s a connection there.

Irvine: Yeah. Some people hate surprises, but so, and  [cross-talk 04:41]. 

Taylorr: Yeah, my wife. Yeah, she’s like, don’t you ever surprise me? I was like, alright. Alright.

Irvine: And surprise is very difficult to fake. I remember when I was CEO of Catholic Charities for a while and one of the the CEO was leaving and so they were throwing her a surprise party and I found out that she knew about it. And so I called and I said, okay, we’re going to this party, I know that you know, but you are going to act surprise because they put so much darn work into this. So you goes into the room and everyone goes surprise, and she goes, whoa. And I said, oh, that was a fake if ever there was one, but of course noone knew it, but real surprise is so instantaneous. It doesn’t last at all, it moves in. But it’s an interesting question though, because with our emotions as well, we’re able to deliberately evoke emotions within us. So, people go to the movies to be afraid, they go to haunted houses to be afraid and, and some people love evoking fear and being surprised.

Austin: Yeah. Well…

Taylorr: Austin, you weirdo.

Austin: I certainly [cross-talk 05:39]. I know [inaudible 05:41].

Taylorr: So Irvine, one of my favourite things about… well actually you have one of my favourite book titles on the planet, Lessons From The Pub, and so I just wanted to ask about that and how that translated into the whole emotional intelligence thing, especially since we just landed on this conversation from Inside Out, how did you get to that book topic? What was that about? Lessons From The Pub, fill us in there.

Irvine: So I’m originally from Northern Ireland, that’s where I grew up. I actually grew up in a pub. My childhood was spent in a pub and before I came to the US, mainly most of my childhood and adolescents was in a pub. So not many people can say that, and there I left it. And part of the work that I do at the moment is with executive coaching and leadership training. And it’s interesting as I was reflecting before the pandemic with the voices I was hearing, many of it was, there was a lot of burnout going on, a lot of dissatisfaction. Leaders really struggling to create what I would call workplaces that were a little more human. And how do we do this? And as the pandemic happened, I had a lot of free time, like many people, and this image of the pub came up to me.

That that this was this amazing institution that has been going on for hundreds of years, and yet there’s been very little research or writing about it. And in this space I reflected about, here is a space where people came in, they created connection, they were vulnerable, people volunteer, they wanted to go there. And then for me, I said, what a great image for what leaders are trying to do, and so that’s where the title came from, Leadership Lessons From The Pub. And some of the most emotionally intelligent people I’ve ever met are bar men and bar women. Because when you serve behind a pub, boy, have you got human skills. You have to deal with the whole length and breadth of humanity, and I find they’re some of the most emotionally intelligent people.

Austin: Yeah. Well, I can imagine. I mean, there’s something about being at the pub that creates some vulnerability, barriers go down a little bit, so yeah, bartenders, I imagine get the rawest of human emotion a lot of the time. Yeah exactly.

Irvine: Absolutely. Yeah, There’s a great saying in Ireland, they said, and this actually happened. They said, you know, if the pubs ever closed, they would have to triple the population of psychologists and psychiatrist.

Taylorr: Sounds about right.

Irvine: Now during the pandemic, it did happen so I’m not sure. They were closed for about eight or nine months. The

Taylorr: What the outcomes were. 

Austin: That’s so funny. Well, I love your whole work and it’s never been more important than it is now. We’re recording this beginning of January right now, and I just saw a report that came out that said November was the largest month in history where 3 million people, 1% of the entire country’s workforce has quit. They they’ve left, the great resignation. We’re seeing, and in fact, I don’t even know if we’re really seeing the full effects of the that taking…

Taylorr: No, probably not.

Austin: Place. Yeah. So, you just were talking a little bit about safe cultures at work and being emotionally intelligent as a leader, I know we’ve just barely scratched the service, but do you think that that is going to have a play in fixing this issue that large companies, any company is having right now with their people leaving due to this great resignation movement?

Irvine: Absolutely. It’s interesting. I was just reading a report the other day, which is begin… and I agree with you, we’re only beginning to understand this phenomena. But what they were pointing to was that what’s rising to the top is what they call meaning and belonging. I think the pandemic has begun within us something which I think is very beautiful, and that is this discovery of what is life about? What is work about? Kind of the bigger questions. Why do I do this? What’s it for? And those are deeply emotional questions. They are connected to our emotional life. So I think, yes, I think part of that is leaders and organizations that are able to engage in those conversations and have the vision to begin to create spaces where people can connect, where people can find meaning, where people feel they belong. And I think it’s part and parcel of that so I think it’s more important than ever.

Taylorr & Austin: Yeah. Yeah. 

Taylorr: What do you think has been… why is there such a gap? We’re all, all human. It’s almost fascinating to me that we’ve created these cultures and it’s more often than not where we’ve created these cultures where people don’t feel like they have meaning or belonging, what went wrong?

Irvine: Oh, that’s a deep question. I think many levels, I think the human connection went wrong. I think people’s experience varies. I hear it in coaching conversations, it’s amazing what people endure at work. There was a frightening statistic I read a few years ago that 24% of the workforce feel lonely when they go to work. It’s like, wow, wan you imagine waking up every day, going into work and feeling lonely and disconnected? And then what does that mean for the meaning that you have in the work that you do, or even the quality of the work that you do? So I  think it’s been going on for a long time and I really do believe leave it’s at the level of leadership and their ability to connect with people and their ability to create work that is meaningful, and I think we’re going have to rethink this. We’re in a revolutionary period, I think, and I don’t know where it’s going, but actually, I’m quite excited about it.

Austin: Yeah. I’m excited about it too.

Irvine: Really?

Austin: I feel optimistic and I feel optimistic not because I have any expertise in this area, I have no idea what’s going to happen. Thank God that you’re here to help us with this Irvine. Yeah. I think that people are talking and having conversations about it and although there are some massive problems to solve, and I don’t even think, like I said, a minute ago, we’re even seeing the beginning of the effects of this yet, people are talking and there are some interesting solutions out there. There’s people talking more about the work life balance and being a real human being outside of our job…

Taylorr: A four day work week.

Austin: Day to day. A four day work week, that’s a good example of that, that for sure. Yeah. I think that there’s a [inaudible 11:56] and there’s also just a lot of people that really want to do better. I know all the time I’m listening to leaders and people say, you know, I’m looking for ways to improve, and I think what I really like about your work Irvine, is that you make it tangible for people to improve in this area and I think we’re kind of hoping that we can drill down into that a little bit there. Maybe in fact, that’s even the segue. I know that in emotional intelligence as a whole, there’s four major pillars that are sort of agreed upon by experts and actually you and I had the opportunity to sit down at a pub and talk this over at one point, and you’ve even taken it and put your own little per personal spin on it in a way that sort of resonates with people better, just the language of these four different pillars. Can we maybe just label these four things and then have you give us a brief explanation of these four pillars, and maybe from there we can figure out some practical ways that people can improve them?

Irvine: Sure. Yeah. So I think traditionally, there are many different models of emotional intelligence and I just want to say this, emotional intelligence itself is a very difficult term to fully define because it’s an umbrella term for many different things that are happening in our emotional life and our emotional relationship. But the four main quadrants we would talk about is first of all, something to do with the self. And so that be our self-awareness, the ability to be aware of what’s happening within us, and then the ability to manage that, self-management. And then in our outside world and our relationship with others. So there would be social awareness and then relationship management, how we ability to aware of others and then manage those relationships. 

The way I like to define it, especially in leadership is I always like to say, before you can lead others, you have to lead yourself. So then part of that is leading self. And then in leading self is that awareness and the management of those, and then secondly, leading others. And part of that is just the awareness of what’s happening in other people, and then being able to use that to manage relationships. So those are the four main quadrants, people  disagree with what should be in each one of those, but at the end of the day, that’s at the core of what we mean when we talk about emotional intelligence.

Austin: Yeah. Okay. So just quick recap then. So self-awareness, and then self-management or self leadership, whatever term. And then awareness of others, maybe. And then…

Irvine: Social awareness. Yep.

Austin: Social awareness. Okay. And then social leadership…

Irvine: Social interaction or relationship management.

Austin: Relationship management. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Okay. That seems practical. I have a hunch, and this is just based on the interactions that I see, self-awareness is a tough one. 

Taylorr: Tough one. Just want to highlight it’s the first one in the list too. I’m sitting here like, oh, I’m self-aware, now what?

Irvine: And of course what’s really interesting about that Taylorr is,  you said that because all of a sudden, we talked about it and like, oh, because we spend so much of our lives unself-aware and thinking of other things. It’s this ability, this practice of constantly checking in and being aware self-awareness is the foundation of everything. For me, I find in working with any client, that’s where the majority of work begins with. And why is it so important? It’s so important because for many people, they have a very limited emotional vocabulary. And our emotional life is so intrinsic to our happiness, it’s so intrinsic to our relationships, and if you don’t have language around that and the ability to recognize when different emotions are happening, then it impoverishes our life. I just have to say that. I think we have a richer life when we have language around our emotions.

In fact, there’s some amazing research coming out now with exposing children, to methodologies of helping them name emotions and what emotions are happening, and it’s fascinating how easy it is for them to then begin to control those emotions. So that’s the building block. And then the other one would be triggers. So often we are triggered emotionally, and that trigger sets out a number of behaviours, and it is amazing how many people are unaware of the behaviours and then unaware of what trigger them. So part of this self-awareness is this naming of emotions, this ability to name some of the triggers that are setting us off, to recognize what they are, and all of that is layers. It’s a work that’s never done. I’m still discovering my own emotional self-awareness but it’s a commitment to want to do that.

Taylorr & Austin: Yeah.

Austin: It’s an evolutionary process too. Emotions aren’t just a static thing. Our emotional state is too changing, and the things that trigger, us change and how we respond to said triggers change…

Irvine: Absolutely. [Cross-talk 16:37] and each situations come up, we learn new things about ourselves. My God, here we are in the midst of a pandemic, and I think I was talking to Austin about this. We were on vacation before the pandemic started, just in the cusp of it, Kauai in Hawaii, in the middle of nowhere. And we had friends with us, they returned to LA two days before we were coming back, and on the last day we get a frantic phone call said, oh my God, you got to go to Costco, you got to get toilet roll, you got to get Vitamin C, I’m saying, what? What are you talking about? And I said, why are the acting so crazy? I said that’s not us, that’s not them. 

So I go back to Maryland and get at home, and of course, all of a sudden I’m immersed in this emotional contagion that in society and Monday morning, I’m outside of Costco with a shopping trolley an hour before it opens, getting ready to fight for the last toilet. And so, I just said, I’m not like that, and all of a sudden, so it’s amazing, we begin to learn kind of, oh, it’s interesting. So when I feel threatened and my survival’s threatened, I’m just like the rest of them. I’m ready to go to fight for that last toilet roll. Life presents us challenges and we learn more and more about ourselves.

Taylorr: I like that you kind of talked about being able to label emotions because that’s probably a thing… because certainly when I was growing up, they weren’t teaching me words about what I was feeling and how to overcome those things, so you go through life, you try and sort this out and add labels to things. And I know labels are talked about regularly, but I feel like they’re so important because they give you definition behind something and allows you to remember when that happens again. I feel like the moment I have a label for something or, or a trigger, I feel this is what happens when I feel threatened, I’m more quick to understand that the next time that it happens, and it’s kind of almost a super power in a way of being able to read the label inside of the bottle you’re in. It’s really difficult to self-assess sometimes, and so having those labels really, I feel like helps me, I don’t know just catch myself faster on the, on the next go of it.

Irvine: That’s a great point, Taylorr, because one of the things as well that I find is that people have very limited language. So like how did you feel? I’m angry. Well, what do you mean by with that angry? Explain it. I’m just angry. And so some things I’ll do is, well, if you had a scale of one to 10, where would that anger be? Is it a 10 anger or a three anger? And then you can start to nuance, well then maybe you’re miffed, or maybe you’re upset, or maybe you’re explosive. And so the language around that really helps us get into touch with the intensity of emotion, and what we’re feeling, and kind of knowing that emotion, what’s my past history? How have I dealt with that? And all of that really uncovers some really interesting data that we can use in modulating our emotions.

Austin: Wow. So I have this this model that I learned. It’s actually, I learned it because I was trying to figure out a better way to help people figure out CRMs, I’m helping them implement that, but it’s basically this. It’s like a behavioural change model and I think it kind of fits into what you’re talking about right now, so I’d be curious just to get you take on it. Basically, you start by identifying the trigger, the thing that has made you feel whatever it is that you’re feeling, and then you would define what the past behaviour would be normally. So I got cut off in traffic, normally I’d honk on my horn and scream at him for the next two miles before I get off the exit. And then you define what would rather do instead. So I’m going to take three deep breaths and put on some classical music and then the hard part would be executing that. But then by doing that, by defining the trigger, defining what you would’ve normally done, defining what you want to do instead, and then doing that thing, if you can repeat that enough times, that’s how you can change behavior. Does that align with the way that you look at this whole self-awareness self-management process?

Irvine: Perfectly. Yeah, because part of that… so very often when it comes to emotions, the first thing, and I just add a little nuance to that. So the first thing is that very often, when we have say what you mentioned there, a regrettable kind of behaviour. And so what’s going on here? Very often, what we’re doing is we’re looking back. So we’re looking back what was the trigger? And then once we identify the trigger, we say, is there a pattern there? Has this come up before? And if there’s a pattern, then can I anticipate? So say for example, I was working with a leader six months ago and there’s a person presses their buttons. Whenever I just know it, I’m going be pressed. Well, that’s something that can be anticipated, and Wednesday morning when I have that meeting that person’s going be there, I’m probably going to be triggered.

So then what do I do? And then that’s where, what you’re talking about then visualizing, what other responses? So here is a response, my response is I got angry and I snap at them or I honk the horn or whatever. Well, what other possibilities and the great thing you know about visualization is that even if we’re not doing the behaviour, we can create mural pathways it’s as if we’re doing it. And so providing that choice because really that’s the key to great emotional intelligence. It’s having greater choice to react in the way that serves me and the other person the best.

Taylorr: Yeah. It’s kind of like going back to that whole thing we’re taught us kids just to think before you act that whole kind of idea, it’s like being able to be in that blink of a moment before you make a decision. And making the right one of course, to achieve that goal. That’s the hard part.

Irvine: And we so underestimate how intensely difficult than it sounds…

Taylorr: That is. It sounds so easy. Yeah.

Irvine: So easy. And some of us can be very skilled and I’ve spent a long time trying to be skilled at that, but you know what, I wake up and I’m feeling grumpy, I haven’t had sleep or whatever, it goes out the window. And that’s one of the things I always say about emotional intelligence is, is the humility to understand that this is a learning process and some days you’re on and some days you’re not and that’s just part of being human.

Taylorr: Yeah.

Austin: Man, I love that. Part of being human. Let’s not forget that folks. It makes sense to me too. Emotions are powerful things. It’s amazing how full lizard brain can take over sometimes, like when some stupid thing happens and you get upset or whatever, and how all logic goes right out the window and you’re just like really intensely taken over by that emotion and so…

Irvine: Absolutely.

Austin: Pivoting to…

Irvine: The reason we’re having in this conversation today is because we are amazingly and wonderfully made to survive, and that survival instinct will take over, and the brain is very conservative. The brain says survive now, act and ask questions later. To interrupt that pattern is very difficult, but can be done, but it takes for practice. It’s an amazing system that we have.

Austin: It’s is.

Taylorr: It really feels like emotional intelligence is a spectrum. Sorry, Austin, I think I’ll just polish with this thought, but I think the one thing that I’m kind of learning as I talk to more experts like you Irvine, is that I felt like for so long emotional intelligence, almost like intelligence IQ, there was just this label. You’re like 80 IQ, this is your emotional intelligence as well, it doesn’t ever seem fixed. It seems like something that stays in flux and you can be aware of this, maybe even know, and I don’t know, maybe there’s a quotient, but it feels like it’s okay to be in flux with how good we’re doing at this at any given time. Whereas it’s not something that’s fixed, you can learn to improve it.

Irvine: Yeah. Well, therein lies a whole discussion because very often in the early days when emotional intelligence was first kind of developed by Dan Goldman or least Dan Goldman was the one that brought the science forward, it was compared to IQ and really, that’s not a good comparison because IQ is a very defined notion and scientific notion, which uses a defined methodology where emotional intelligence is like, what are we measuring? Because there’s lots of different things we could measure. The good thing about that is that your IQ is pretty much established by the time you’re in your early twenties, but with emotional intelligence, it can go up and down, it fluctuates just as you’re saying, Taylorr. 

And the other thing I would just say is that very often we our emotional intelligence is a potential, and so the more developed it is we have the potential to act in a certain way, we have a skill set to act in a certain way. The doesn’t mean we’ll always do it, but it means the potential is there. And I think that’s, what’s variable. And I think what we try and grow is we try and grow our emotional intelligence potential, we try grow our skillsets and different. How do I read people? What am I noticing? What am I reading about myself? And then we grow that potential, and then the second part of that is, well, when the rubber meet road, can we really display it in an emotionally intelligent way when it arises?

Taylorr: Wow. I feel like you just gave me a whole new box of understanding for this Irvine, the potential. I relate to that because of my science background a little bit. It’s like kinetic energy, it doesn’t mean you’re going use the whole thing, but the potential energy of your system, same kind of concept, it feels like you can get to a certain level of  your potential emotional intelligence and whether or not we display that at any given time is kind of what’s up in the air. 

Irvine: Yeah.

Taylorr: Cool. 

Austin: Yeah. So I want to take this conversation and move it to the other side of the four pillars then, which is the external side of things.

Taylorr: The relationships. 

Austin: Yeah, can you kind of help us understand the distinctions here and the similarities and differences between what we need to be to doing to be self-aware and managing ourselves versus others?

Irvine: Yeah. So, just as the first pillar was self-awareness, so when we move towards the social environment is how well do we notice what’s happening around us? And so there’s a number of things, what are we noticing about the person’s behaviour? We grew up in a society, unfortunately, which has a bias towards words. And so very often we’re in conversation, what we’re doing is we’re intently listening for the words and the nuances and the words and all that is wonderful, but we miss so much about the body language that’s happening in front of us. And so that’s vitally important. Are we able to recognize emotions in other people shifts in what’s happening in the conversation? Are we able to connect with people, show empathy, and engage with other people, connect with other people? And are we aware of what’s happening say in a group meeting?

I’m amazed of people who walk into a staff meeting and be totally unaware that the tension in the room is so thick, you could cut it. And so that awareness to kind of notice what’s in the air. And then the final one of which I is very important, and sometimes is not brought up is contextual awareness. So aware of the context of what’s happening, every conversation, every meeting with a person happens in a certain context, and to be aware of that, and then to also think about, well, what might I expect in that context is important as well. So that first element is just that awareness and some people are more aware socially than others and I think that’s an important skill to build.

Austin: Yeah. I almost feel like it’s easier to build skills to be aware of others than it is to be aware of self. At least for me personally. I have a hard time looking inwards a lot of the time, but there’s so many things that you can like be looking for, and it’s also interesting because like, at least when we’re looking inwards, we have a lot of that contextual information, a lot of the things that are pulling levers behind the scenes we’re seeing, because we’re experiencing and participating in the process. But it sounds like at least one of the challenges with being socially aware is keeping in mind all of these various factors that are contributing to the emotions of other people. It’s not just one thing we’re not just looking to see, hey, are you happy, sad, or upset or otherwise, but what in the environment is happening? What about the other people connected to this individual? How are they feeling? What are the internal things that we don’t even know about that are battling in the background that they’re not showing? There’s so much ambiguity, I guess, with other people, because we’re not them, we’re not experiencing it.

Irvine: Absolutely. 

Austin: There’s so many layers. Yeah,

Irvine: Yeah. It is. And it’s this acute awareness, this ability to read a room, this ability to know what’s happening as a speaker, whatever. I’ve been called into situations where I want to be high energy and optimistic, and then I walk into a room and I know that something’s just happened, I can feel it. What just happened. I remember a situation like 10 years ago, I was walking into a room and what I didn’t realize is that they had some huge organizational change, which would disrupt their lives and meant some layoffs. And so the last thing people wanted to hear me going rah, rah, rah, everything, but [inaudible 29:29] to kind of, oh, so something’s going on here. And so just that awareness of, of being able to read that is incredibly important.

And then following on from that, in the engagement, in the interaction then, and what you’re really doing is these last two is, they’re feeding off each other. So in conversation with another person, you’re noticing you’re becoming aware of the wholeness of the language that’s coming to you, the body language, the voice, the intonation, everything, and you’re modulating that in that conversation. And so that helps you then, how do you have difficult conversations? How do you have conversations that have to deal with conflict? How do you build teams and rapport, all of that is critical to these essential social skills.

Taylorr & Austin: Yeah. 

Taylorr: I was going say the management piece of like the relationship management piece, you kind of needs a feedback loop. Because I think one thing that I’ve learned is, I’m going apply this to the sales context because this is often kind of where we grew up, but you kind of have to meet people where they’re at, like you said in your story, the last thing the audience wanted was a hurrah, optimistic, let’s get this thing done type of energy. They needed an energy more in line with where they’re at the moment so that they could resonate better with it. Being able to bring your yourself down or up to match another person’s interaction to meet the air in the room, basically, it’s a dance,

Irvine: Oh, it’s an absolute dance. And the critical skill of listening and listening, not just for the words, but just listening as well with your whole body, one of the Chinese character for listening is really incredible because it talks about, you know, your eyes, but also listening with your heart and your ears.

Taylorr: Whoa, really? Wow.

Irvine: For me, listening is a full body experience. And so I’m listening to the words that are coming out, I’m also my hearts because that’s where I’m going to engage in empathy, and then also I’m looking, I’m looking at this person in front of me and they’re speaking with words, but they’re also speaking nonverbally, and am I listening to that as well?

Austin: Wow. So listening with your ears, your eyes and your heart, that’s sort of the take. Man, that is a really cool idea. I am going take that one with me. So thank you.

Irvine: Especially in a tough conversation, we all have conversations with people who like, eh, it’s kind of like our empathy level is, is not the best, and so to be able to kind of realize at times, how can I connect in the heart here? Is there something that can really help me connect with this person in a way that I’m not doing? Because if I can, I’m going to listen in a different way. And I think that at times the heart can be the biggest challenge.

Taylorr: Yeah. I heard this old, I think it’s a Chinese proverb, someone reach out and someone reach out and let me know if this is right. It goes something like the longest journey a person will ever take is the one from their head to their heart, and yeah, I think this kind of speaks to that a little bit. So thank you for being here Irvine, today. I wanted to just take a moment too, to talk about the context of this entire session here. I know we were talking about emotional intelligence generally, and Irvine, we were talking before the show that generally we almost always have a frame around this, like how to use it in sales or marketing or building a better business, but the real reason why we wanted to come and do this kind of show is because like, as a business owner, for all of you listeners, these four pillars, self-awareness, self-management your social awareness, your social interactions and your relationship management, is crucial to the success of your business, your satisfaction with life, the relationships that you have just because we’re on stage and we’re experts in our own category doesn’t mean that we have all of these locked down at any given time.

And I think keeping these front and centre as we’re just going through the eb and flow of running our businesses throughout the days, the weeks, the quarters and the years, is grounding in a way. It lets you be human gives you permission to be okay with the emotions that we experience on the day to day. So Irvine thank you from the bottom of our hearts for coming on and teaching us something new today. If someone wanted to learn more about emotional intelligence or reach out to you or some help, what’s the best way for them to get in touch?

Irvine: You know I’ve just suggest visiting my website. My name irvinenugent.com, got some great free resources there. I think Austin mentioned that I try and make this very practical and there are many exercises and each of those four quadrants and that’s the way just get some exercises, have some fun about this, and you’ll find some exercise there and the information on my book and trainings as well.

Taylorr: Alright. Awesome. Well, hey, there will be a link, definitely go check out those exercises, I’ve done them. They are awesome, you will certainly enjoy them if you’re on a path for emotional intelligence. And hey, if you like this episode, don’t forget to rate it like it, subscribe to it and if you want more awesome resources like this, go to speakerflow.com/resources. Thank you so much for chiming in. I just wanted to take a second to thank our sponsor Auxbus. Axbus is the all in one suite of tools you need to run your podcast and it’s actually what we run here at Speaker Flow for Technically Speaking. It makes planning podcasts simple, it makes recording podcasts simple, it even makes publishing podcasts to the masses simple and quite honestly, Technically Speaking, wouldn’t be up as soon as it is without Auxbus. Thank you so much Auxbus. And if you are interested in checking Auxbus out, whether you’re starting a podcast or you have one currently get our special offer auxbus.com/speakerflow, or click the link below in our shown notes.