S. 1 Ep. 2 – 3 Reasons Why You’re Not Getting The Fees You Deserve

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Cece Payne

Marketing Coordinator at SpeakerFlow - Follow us on social media to stay in the flow!

Cece Payne

Marketing Coordinator at SpeakerFlow - Follow us on social media to stay in the flow!
Technically Speaking S 1 Ep 2 - 3 Reasons Youre Not Getting The Fees You Deserve with SpeakerFlow and David Newman

Woo! What an awesome episode this is. 🚀 

This week, we have David Newman, CSP, million-dollar speaker, and marketing aficionado extraordinaire (we could go on), chatting with us about the 3 reasons why you’re not getting the fees you deserve as a professional speaker and though-leader. 

And, yes, that includes selling through COVID! 🤦‍♂️ 

So, you’re wondering what the three reasons are?

1️⃣  Ignorance (you don’t know your market) 

2️⃣  Self-Worth and Self-Esteem Isn’t In Check (you’re not charging what you’re worth)

3️⃣  No Structured Prospecting or Sales Process (yes, we’re looking at you 👀) 

So, what are you waiting for? Click that play button and get to listenin’!

This is a good one. 

Watch the Podcast 👀

Listen to the Podcast 🎤

Show Notes 📓

✅ Learn more about David Newman and Do It Marketing here: https://doitmarketing.com/

✅  Take David’s free training: https://doitmarketing.com/webinar/  

✅  Read Do It Marketing’s Manifesto: https://doitmarketing.com/manifesto/

✅  Check Out David’s Podcast, The Speaking Show: https://doitmarketing.com/podcast/ 

🎤   Thank you to our sponsor, Libsyn Studio (formerly Auxbus)! Want the best podcasting solution out there? Learn more here: https://www.libsynstudio.com/ 

Read the Transcription 🤓

Taylorr: Welcome to another episode of technically speaking. We are super excited about today’s guest speaker, coach, author, and marketing expert David Newman. So, David Newman CSP is a member of the NSA million-dollar speakers’ group, one of the big reasons why we wanted to have him on the show here today. He’s the author of the business bestsellers, Do It Marketing and Do It Speaking, 77 Instant Action Ideas to Market Monetize and Maximize Your Expertise, he’s the host of the speaking show in iTunes top 50 marketing podcasts, and even the number one highest-rated podcast on the business of speaking. David is also the creator of the Expert Profit Formula Mentoring Program and The Do It MBA Marketing Business Accelerator. We used to say David you are very well decorated and welcome to the show. We are so glad that you’re here.

David: Thank you, Taylorr. It’s great to be here.

Taylorr: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know one of the things that triggered this conversation is kind of your philosophy around marketing and selling as a thought leader, building your business and really everything that you coach speakers and thought leaders on how to do. And one of the emails we got recently, it was titled Three Reasons You’re Not Getting the Fees You Deserve. And this stood out to me because I mean, one to narrow it down to three is a big step. But after reading these three, it basically summarized everything that we see when we’re talking to speakers and thought leaders and basically it reads like this. Are you on the list of the cool kids coming to the high [inaudible 01:50] IP? And then it says in the era of COVID, which you are right now, here’s what your biggest fee setting and feed getting problems come down to.

So, the first reason is ignorance, and this one really stood out to me but I’m excited to kind of pick your brain about this. The second reason, the self-worth and self-esteem. This is obviously a big problem, value pricing, what you’re actually worth and the delivery that you have. But reason number three, I mean, this one really stood out to us given our background too, but no intelligent prospecting and no proactive sales process. So, today everyone we’re talking about the three reasons why you’re not getting the fees you deserve and this includes now in a COVID world, but it also applies to why you might not have been getting your fees in the first place previous to COVID even coming. So, David, tell me a little bit more about this and your perspective on what kind of triggered this email and this message that you have, that you’re getting across the thought leaders about them not getting their fees. Why is it so important to you? 

David: Well, Taylorr, so you picked up first of all, I want to acknowledge and thank you for the impact that this email had on you. I actually sent a daily email, so I send a whole bunch of emails and I always know I’m in trouble when a colleague or a friend or a client says, David, you sent an email this morning that said, and I’m like oh boy, here comes, here it comes [inaudible 03:12] it didn’t land, or it landed, or I’m going to get some hate mail or whatever. So, this is an ongoing, recurring rant about high fees and I think there’s a couple of different things going on. There is a scarcity mindset in just not even the expert industry, but in entrepreneurship in general. You know, I just want to make a living, I just want to be comfortable, I’m not in it for the money. Anytime that someone says I’m not in it for the money, I say, listen, it’s not all about the money. 

We want to have an impact, we want to have clients who love us, who have dramatic results, who have amazing improvements who are doing way better with you than they ever would, without you. All of that is true, but without the money, you don’t get to do the work that you’re here to do. So, when people sometimes even clients will sometimes say to me David, you’re still focused on the money with you, it’s all about the money. I said, you know what, honestly, it is not all about the money, but without the money, it’s nothing. Without the money, it’s nothing. So, for us to do what we do, we need to get high fees and my positioning and a lot of my programs are called high fee, this and high fee that, and I’m all about getting well paid for delivering massive, massive value and incredible, amazing results for every client and every audience that you’re ever in front of.

So, that’s why it’s an ongoing recurring theme. And I’m really glad that this one email just sorts of landed Taylorr, and you said, wow, let’s talk about this. The first reason that I think people wrong charge and undercharge is they simply have never done their homework. And one of the first things that I always recommend, and this is in my webinars and I teach clients this, and we do this in our free videos and we talk about this all the time is that you need to do a competitive scan in your landscape. So, as a speaker, as a consultant, as a coach, as a workshop leader, seminar trainer if you don’t know what the quote unquote going rate is, and you don’t know… imagine shopping for a car and you don’t know the difference between a Volkswagen, a Toyota,  a Lexus, a BMW and a Ferrari, you’re going to say, well, cars or cars.

Or, should it be 10 grand? Should it be 200 grand? I don’t know. And this actually brings me to a client story. I had a client, this was probably gosh, 10 years ago, and she was very, very confused. She was somewhat successful, but never consistently. She said David, here’s my problem. I’ve charged 1500, I’ve charged 15,000 at this point I honestly don’t know, you tell me now. Now imagine any speaker, imagine any professional of any kind, imagine a dentist, imagine a lawyer, imagine a doctor saying Taylorr, we’re going to do a root canal. Could be 1500, could be 15,000, I don’t know, buddy, you tell me.

Taylorr: Let me take swing at that.

David: You tell me. Do you feel like paying for the root canal today? No one knows. Okay, root canal is typically 3,500 from Dr. A 3,000 from Dr. B 4,200 from doctor C. It’s somewhere between three and five k. No one’s charging a hundred grand for a root canal and no one’s charging 250 bucks. Do you know the going rate for a root canal? 

Most dentists would be like, yeah, sure I do because I studied the market. You go to most of our clients who are consultants and experts and speakers and trainers. I really have no idea is 1500 a lot of money? Is it 500? Should it be 700? Should I ask what their budget is? 

So, here’s the first value bomb. Never let your fee be dependent on their budget. Not only is that ignorant, that is professional malpractice and is financial suicide. So, that’s crazy talk, that’s ignorance. We can talk more about that. Let me get a breath in.

Taylorr: Sure.

David: So, go ahead. What else can I answer about ignorance? I could go on for days about each of these.

Taylorr: Yeah, we can tell. We can definitely tell. I do have one question, when you said ignorance and when you wrote it in your email, one thing that came to mind for me was like the phrase ignorance is bliss, and why is it that we seek ignorance? Like, why do you think people are so not… they don’t feel comfortable doing the competitive research. Like sometimes when we’ve told our clients hey, you need to do some competitive analysis. It’s going to give you conviction and in your pricing range and to give you a ballpark of how to actually sell and then where they provide value and then you’re going to know whether or not you provide more value. So, you can kind of direct your fee. But they’re always apprehensive to start, almost as if it’s intimidating and they’re going to discover something they didn’t want to discover. Have you been able to pinpoint why there’s an apprehension to doing competitive analysis and why it’s not a natural thing for us as experts, trainers, facilitators to do?

David: So, it’s so funny, it’s a really, really great question. I find that when people come back from this activity when I say hey, go do a competitive scan. One of two things happens and sometimes both happen to the same exact person. Thing number one is they get depressed because there’s always somebody better and there’s always somebody cheaper. So, it’s like Taylorr, I found this guy he’s wrote his written 17 leadership books, I’ve only written one leadership book. Someone has three PhDs. 

Someone already has like 50 online courses and they’re so far ahead of me and then oh my gosh, I found a $97 course on Udemy and this is very comprehensive. It’s like 19 hours of content and they’re giving that away for 97 bucks, how can I charge $5,000 for a keynote that’s the only an hour? So, that’s experience number one. And by the way, for the folks listening, there’s always somebody better and there’s always somebody cheaper and just get over it because then…

Taylorr: True. 

David: Right, because category two is the flip side of the coin. They say I went to this guy’s website; he’s got one self-published book; I bought the book on Amazon. It’s a really crappy book. I saw his website, I watched his videos, he’s not that great. I’m going on these various other websites and these Bureau websites, I see his fee is like 10 grand and up and here I am, I know better than this guy. Who’s this guy to be charging 10 grand and here I am charging 2,500 or make up the number, I’m immediately going to start charging 7,500 or 10 grand to match this guy who doesn’t know his head from a hole in the wall. 

So, you will find people miles was ahead of you, and you will find people who are miles ahead of you on the marketing and the sales and the pricing and the positioning and you will quickly see there isn’t no there, there. It’s a lot of smoke, a lot of mirrors, a shiny website, and the expertise is few and far between. So, what I’ve never seen is a really good really workman-like expert saying wow, my material is garbage, my material is crap. I really don’t know how to help people; I have no idea what my value is. No one ever says that. I said well, go back to your client success story, go back to all the thank you emails, the thank you cards. Like you said about getting in touch with your value, look at your own LinkedIn recommendation, start to read your own press clippings. 

And one of the things that we do to help reset their mindset is to get them back in touch with their own awesomeness and then we why are you charging less then this other person who doesn’t have the credibility, doesn’t have the client results, doesn’t have the experience doesn’t have the expertise, doesn’t have the chops that you have? And immediately we’ve seen people double and triple their fee and they say I feel so much better now because they know that there’s always the bigger, better and cheaper, but there’s also the folks that are selling at a much higher level that don’t deliver the goods. So, we want to be the high fee experts who deliver the goods and are the real deal.

Austin: That makes total sense to me too and I think that applies to the person who’s selling their keynotes as well as the buyer. Because something that we’ve seen that’s really unfortunate is by people not having the confidence in the value that they provide, and by undercharging themselves, the buyer ends up picking somebody who charges more because they’re charging more because it’s extra value. And so, like the confidence not only is if you don’t have the confidence it’s not only holding you back from getting booked at the fees that you deserve, but also just getting booked in general because you’ll get passed up for somebody who may seem to provide more value just based on the higher fee. I don’t know if you’ve noticed that.

David: You guys see this with your clients, I see it with my clients, people listening are like, no Austin’s full of crap.

Austin: These guys.

David: I’ll never lose a gig because I’m too cheap. My friends, you will lose gigs because you’re too cheap. So, here’s the poster, here’s the bumper sticker to put up in your office, that’s right, right now you’re listening to Technically Speaking and we’re giving you wall art [inaudible 13:18] your office. I’m worth more because I charge more and I charge more because I’m worth more. Now, you have to listen to both halves of that equation. I’m worth more because I charge more and I charge more because I’m worth more. 

Most people have no problem believing that second one, they have a real hard time getting their head around the first one. But it is true 101 times out of a hundred that you are worth more because you charge more and of course we know that we charge more because we’re worth more than that person who’s got the empty website, the flashy videos, the lack of substance, the lack of real expertise and experience that you have but you simply haven’t stepped up your marketing and sales game where you’ve got the confidence to claim it. 

Max: We talk about mindset and I think it gets downplayed with selling, but what I find fascinating is at the root of all of the problems when you talk to professionals particularly thought leaders when they are not used to wearing a sales hat, it is not something and it ultimately lands in the court of it is about their mindset. It’s about their mindset about themselves, their perceived value and with that lack of conviction, that really can impact every conversation, every email, every response, every money conversation when you get into that crunch time, where it’s time for you to sort of be able to hold your own in a conversation. If you don’t have that mentality that you’re describing, you’re going to find out real quick, it’s frustrating for you and you feel like you’re always at a bit of a disadvantage, but it ultimately is something that is it’s under their direct control. It’s under our direct control to be able to work with that mindset and effectively change it and shift it.

David: Absolutely true. And here’s the flip side of that also, Max, is that we can give people every CRM, every script, every outreach template, everything on LinkedIn, I mean, you guys do this, right? We build campaigns for these folks and we say here’s the marketing machine that will bring you premium clients and premium fees and keynotes and virtual trainings and seminars and webinars and remote training. Great. you know, I really don’t believe I’m worth the fee. As soon as they say that that’s really what’s going on. No script, no tablet, no sales training, no CRM, no technology is going to save your butt If your mindset isn’t tuned in the right direction.

Taylorr: Exactly right. Totally agree. We learned like really early on, actually I learned really early on when I got into the speaking industry, I was actually doing digital marketing for professional speakers, thought leaders and so on. So, you generate leads as a marketer should, and then they couldn’t close the leads and as a marketer, I’m like, okay, well you need a CRM so let’s get that in place. They get the CRM, it’s like you’re still not closing leads, what’s the problem here? And it always boiled down to the mindset, the way that they conceptualize their value, their self-esteem. And I think a lot of this, like we went from ignorance in this conversation right into your second point, David, about having solid self-esteem when it comes to selling. Like if you don’t have that, if you can’t speak with conviction, you can’t carry that Like you said, Max, through the money conversation, through your outreach and it makes step number three, a whole lot harder because I can imagine, can you imagine David getting in front of your CRM and knocking down all your sales calls and not believing in yourself of the value you provide those people and then feeling like you… 

David: Sucks the life out of you. 

Taylorr: Yeah, it sucks the life out of you. So, how do you even prospect or sell when you don’t have those, the conviction of your value first.

David: Let’s, like go quick half step back, because I want to draw a distinction between self-worth and self-esteem. So, self-esteem is what we have every morning in the shower when we’re singing. We’re singing in the shower; self-esteem is simply how you consider yourself in terms of yourself. So, number one, you’re a great singer. Number two, you look fantastic naked, no matter what kind of body shape, no matter what you got going on, I mean, I’m 30 pounds overweight, I look in the mirror I go, yeah, boy, you got it going on. I look fantastic, I’m singing in the shower. 

Most of us, unless we have some psychological disorder, the self-esteem is not a problem. We like ourselves. We like ourselves just fine. Self-worth is a whole different ball game. Self-worth is how you see yourself in the context of the marketplace. So, our self-esteem, it’s like, I’m great, I do great work for my clients, they love my training, they love my keynotes, they love my seminars, I get beautiful evaluations, I get plaques and awards and I’ve got my CSP and I’m wonderful. Great. Self-esteem A-plus.

Self-worth, oh my God. I’m just another speaker, I’m just bombed bothering them, they’re not hiring, we’re in the middle of Covid [cross-talk 18:26], you know. I haven’t updated my keynote in two years, it’s not really relevant to what they’re doing. [Cross-talk 18:31] I’m no good. I’m a nice to have, I’m not a half to have. I hope they have money, let me give an unasked-for discount all this crazy self-talk. That is the self-worth problem that we have self-esteem needs to match the self-worth. 

If you’re awesome sitting in the shower, singing opera, you’re going to be awesome on the phone, you’re going to be awesome on your emails, you’re going to be awesome on your LinkedIn outreach. We need to get congruence between who we know we are and the value that we know we deliver and these sales conversations like we just talked about with Max.

Austin: I’m really glad that you made that distinction. And I think that as you were saying that one of the things that stood out to me is like, there’s almost this difference between how we talk to ourselves in those two different areas. Because self-esteem can oftentimes be gotten to logically, like I do really great work for my clients, people tell me that I’m doing a good job, I have the plaque on the wall and so we can reason with ourselves that we are awesome. But with the self-worth side of it, it seems like that is more prone to the emotional attack where because we’re not getting validated… and part of this is the ignorance component like you said, David. If you don’t have the knowledge to help move past that emotional reaction that we get sometimes the emotions can totally demolish the self-esteem too when you’re having the conversations with people and it seems like, yeah, you’ve got to sort of find a way to get yourself to yourself worth logically. And something that came up for me, I know is documenting stuff like writing down exactly what I’m charging and why I’m charging and the components that make up that fee and like, if I can get to a place where I’m logically explaining to myself why I’m worth what I’m worth, then it takes that emotional component out. I don’t know if you see that too, David, but it’s something [cross-talk 20:21]

David: Oh my gosh, absolutely. Well, and I think Austin, one of the beauties of Speaker Flow is that it’s really the science of selling expertise. It’s not about how you feel that day, t’s not about oh, I woke up and you know, I’m not really feeling like a $7,000 speaker today. It’s like listen, dude, the emails are going out, the follow-ups are happening, you get on the phone, you do your outreach, you have the conversations, you add to clients, you invite more people to a conversation how you can help them. So, once we… and this is about consistency. Because I think most successful speakers and experts, they have a great week or a great month or even a great quarter and then we fall off the wagon because they don’t have the structure, we don’t have the consistency, we don’t have the activity level that supports having enough of these high quality conversations with the right kinds of people, with the right kind of mindset, using the right kind of tools and scripting and sales approach so when you hit all of those marks, you’re going to have a great month and people go, wow, I made 20 grand this month, I made 30 grand this month, this is totally awesome. 

And then because of the human element, oh, I forgot to follow up with that person, oh, I was going to send so-and-so a BombBomb video email. Where’s that person’s email address again? And I know that I have business cards from that other thing that they wanted to follow up from January and then people wonder, well, how come I have inconsistent sales months? Because inconsistent activity or random activity leads to random results. And so, what I love about what you guys do is that you put discipline and science and consistency behind that really all the expert needs to bring is the mindset, plus systems plus consistency. That’s the breakthrough.

Max: Man, that is such a golden nugget right there.

David: And there’s your commercial. 

Taylorr: There’s the commercial. 

Austin: There it is.

David: There’s your commercial. 

Taylorr: Everyone listening, [cross-talk 22:24] everyone listening, that’s the whole reason why we brought David in is just for that moment right there. [Inaudible 22:29].

Austin: It’s true. The thing that I think people miss too, is that with the lack of the process and systems and consistency there, you can’t get data and if you can’t get, then you can never know for sure. Yeah, Taylorr, I don’t know if you want to like elaborate on the feedback loop component, but if you don’t have the numbers telling you whether or not something is working, you have no right to say that I’m doing the right thing or the wrong thing. Like it goes way beyond what your gut is telling you and it needs to be backed up by something that can guarantee that you’re doing the right things. You’re doing the wrong things; you need to improve them. You can’t know unless you have the data. 

Taylorr: Yeah. It’s like what you were saying earlier when, I mean, basically we need a feedback loop to basically go from the emotional thing that we’re feeling to being logically, verifies that we can overcome our emotions of what we were feeling in the first place. So, when we have the numbers telling us what we need to see, and we have a system and we have our activities up, we can be validated and say wow, I had a $30,000 a month because of X, Y, and Z, not just because wow, I had a $30,000 a month where did that come from? And those are way different mindsets. And when you can say well, I had a $30,000 a month because I prospected 50 new leads and I followed up every single time and I didn’t let any task fall through the cracks and then you can do that next month, and then next month and the next month. And that’s when you can get the predictability into the business, which then you can… because once you can make money, you can teach somebody else to make money and you can elevate yourself into the place that you want to be as a thought leader.

David: Absolutely. Can I give you my secret formula for prospecting success? 

Taylorr: Yeah, absolutely. 

David: I know that we’re working on this behind the scenes, it’s a very secret skunk works project. It’s called David Newman edition of Speaker Flow. It’s coming to a screen near you.

Austin: Stay tuned. 

David: I’m just [inaudible 24:17], but you never know. You never know. Here’s the math, and I want to see if… because you guys are again, you’re the data scientists behind this methodology. I call it 25-10- 4-1. 25 outreaches lead to 10 conversations of some kind. A conversation could be dropped dead. We don’t use speakers. A conversation could be, we’re all set through 2023, but some kind of conversation, some kind of response. So, 25 outreaches, 10 conversations surface four opportunities, out of the four opportunities. If you know what you’re doing and you’re systematized and you’re consistent, let’s say you have a 25% closing ratio, which is good, not fantastic, but good, you will get one client.

Max: One client. 

David: But when I say, okay guys, here’s the deal. It’s 25-10-4-1. 25 door opening initial conversations per week, so it’s five a day, it’s not a lot, we’re not doing a hundred cold calls like crazy people, 25 intelligent prospecting outreaches results in 10 conversations with economic buyers of some kind, surface for potential opportunities, close one. And let’s say your fee is 7,500 bucks. So, now we’ve got a $7,500 sale each week for four weeks, four weeks makes up a month, four times 7,500, there’s your $30,000. So, when people listen and go $30,000 a month. Are you crazy? What am I a drug dealer?

Taylorr: Absolutely not.

David: You guys have clients that are at this level. You guys have clients that are past this level…

Austin: We grow into that level.

David: I have clients that are past this level…

Max: Yeah, for sure.

David:  This is doable, but you got to bring the data, you got to bring the consistency, you have to bring the sales and marketing rigor and process to it because it isn’t going to happen by accident. 

Taylorr: That’s right. 

David: I don’t know anyone who is above the 20K per month level, who’s just kind of helter-skelter Let’s see what comes in this month. They are very proactive; they are very systematic and they use systems and tools like Speaker Flow does.

Austin: Yeah, definitely. Those are thing that we noticed you know right out of the gates, even conversations with other seven figure speakers in the million-dollar club, it all boiled down to systems and having a feedback loop and knowing what you’re worth and everything we’ve been talking about today to actually command those fees and get in consistently. And everything you said about 25-10-4-1, we call those the law of averages. And knowing the law of averages, when you make a dial, you pick up the phone and you call person number 24 and you didn’t get it again but you call person 25 and it went well and they’re like oh, perfect timing. We’re actually planning an event right now and I haven’t even found anybody, I don’t even know where to find somebody, so this is great. Can we have a further conversation? 

Knowing that you’re 25-10-4-1, it helps you cross check when you’re feeling the emotional drain that might come up by reaching out to people and getting a bunch of nos. And so, it kind of gives you a system to say, no, I’m on the right path and if I make these 25 outreaches, chances are, I’m going to get to that one deal and it keeps our activity fee [cross-talk 27:27] activity.

David: Let me also just throw one more thing out there because I think people look at the speaking business as just speaking and one of my mantras and one of my beliefs, and I’ve been teaching this and preaching this for 10 plus years, professional speaker is a skill set, it is not a job description.

Max: Oh my gosh.

Austin: Hallelujah. 

David: Amen.

Austin: Amen.

David: That’s so juicy, we’re going to drop it on people again. Professional speaker is a skill set is not a job description. So, think about all the different distribution methods for your expertise. Whether that’s training, coaching, consulting, facilitation, online courses, CEO, round tables, board retreats, speaking can be the driver of your business and one of the things we talk about is having a speaking driven business.

Max: that’s right. 

David: But then everyone in the million-dollar speakers group has an enterprise-based business around their speaking expertise. What does that mean? That means they’re not on the gig to gig hamster wheel. Of course, they speak, they do videos, they do virtual training, they do webinars, they do distance learning, they do licensing, they do sponsorship, they have an army of trainers and army of coaches that they put out under their banner, but speaking is a driver and it’s the rocket fuel to your business. It is not the rocket. It’s the rocket fuel, it’s not the rocket. 

And there’s too many folks out there that are kind of a one trick pony, always looking for the next gig and they have no long-term revenue generation plan above and beyond speaking and I think for the folks that have that model, it’s very vulnerable. It was vulnerable at 9/11, 19 years ago, it’s vulnerable in 2008, 2009 during the financial meltdown and it’s certainly been really vulnerable in the last eight months since COVID. We never want to be dependent on live events. Live events can be a wonderful driver of your business, but there needs to be other sources of sales and marketing and outreach and lead generation and door opening conversations with buyers that if we’re not able to do live events for the next year or two, you should still be making your 30k a month. 

And you’re [cross-talk 29:48] making that with virtual, you’re making that with training, you’re making that with licensing, you’re making that with coaching and consulting, lots and lots of ways to monetize your expertise. So please remember, professional speaker is a skill set and you have that skillset. It is not a self-limiting job description. 

Max: That’s right. 

Austin: That is so good. And it’s too one of those things. We’re just speaking about it from the business case right now, too, but if you want to approach it from your value side of it, go back to the self-esteem, the self-worth conversation people deserve to hear from you. That’s why you’re a thought leader, that’s why you felt convicted enough to stand on stage in front of people, which by the way, people fear more than death, so let’s, let’s not forget that that was a big leap of faith to stand up on stages and preach, but you do that because you want to impact people. And if you aren’t willing to expand the way that you reach out to people and write that book and create the online course and do the training and coaching and license your IP out for companies to use on their own, then you’re missing out on opportunity for people to take advantage of your expertise and thus detracting from the ability that your brand has to grow and expand. So, like it’s not even just the business sense people deserve to hear from you and be impacted by what you have to say don’t limit their ability to get that information from you.

David: Austin, I could not agree more. Amen times 10.

Taylorr: The other thing we say all the time too, sorry, Max, I just got to get this one out.

Max: No, go man.

Taylorr: But like speaking is a… I mean, David, as a marketing professional, what other channel do we have where we can get paid five figures to market to our ideal audience? What channel do you get paid to market to your people on?

David: This one [inaudible 31:26]

Taylorr: This is it. This is the only thing. So, when you treat speaking as rocket fuel, your marketing mechanism to fuel the rest of your business, your business changes forever at that point in time. And so, I just wanted to add that in, if you just shift the mindset around speaking from being the main driver to the marketing vehicle, I feel like everything it takes a shift

Austin: For sure. 

Max: I think that it’s a much more fulfilling role as an expert to recognize that you’re limiting yourself if your view of yourself is low and your view of the money is low and your view of the opportunity is low, because all of what we’ve covered in the last few minutes has been think bigger, think larger, there’s more there that you can bring. There are different ways, you can communicate your expertise. There are dozens of ways that you could creatively show up for somebody in an organization with the project, with an initiative that can really move the needle for them. So, think bigger. I keep hearing that as we’re talking through this, as there’s a lot more here that you can build and do and show up in terms of value creation. And if you start to think of it that way, then there’s a lot more money and opportunity to had as well. So, yeah, just all good things. I love the way we’re looking at this because I think this is where you can find juice and fulfillment as an expert versus frustration and grind.

David: Totally, totally, totally. And Max, one more thing about that. I think people right now need to know that some corporations have more money to spend right now not less. And there’s this myth out there that oh, corporations are broke and everyone’s being… they’re all doing layoffs and everyone’s getting pay cuts and everything is horrible. They are saving tens of millions of dollars. Every corporate travel budget has gone down to zero. Every corporate events and incentive travel budget have gone down to zero. 

I could name another half dozen things; R&D research, travel, consulting, whatever, these programs are being cut left and right. The money, however, is being reallocated to solve problems. So, if we’re problem solvers, the mantra is, solve bigger problems, get bigger checks, companies have now reallocated all this money that they used to spend on corporate travel airlines, hotel, food, Salesforce going out, Salesforce going to Hawaii for the team meeting, none of that’s happening anymore. One of those meetings could be a seven figure meeting, so if your fee is less than a million dollars and you can take the place of that incentive travel trip to Hawaii for their 300 top sales reps, and that’s just one example out of a 365 day corporate year of all the money that they’re not spending on some things because of the new situation, there is money in motion. Anytime there’s money in motion, problem solvers and experts can swoop in and pick up some of that money because the mantra is, solve bigger problems, get bigger checks. So, don’t buy into this mindset that oh, all these corporations are claiming poverty, they’re all in terrible shape, they all have horrible layoffs, they’re all afraid to spend money. Not true, not true, not true.

Austin:  We value [cross-talk 34:50] number 1 billion at this point, my goodness. Wow. This has happened one other time too and this is the last thing that I’ll say on this note, but if you guys want to go deeper on that exact topic you just need to go read The Challenger Sale by Matthew Dixon. This is an entire analysis of why some companies succeeded during the 2008 financial crisis while others were destroyed. And the common factor was those companies pivoted to solve problems, as opposed to just offer goods and services like you would on any normal day and those people survived and those that didn’t did not. So, we’ve seen that played out over the course of history too, this isn’t something that’s new. That’s happening just because of COVID in 2020.

Max: That’s absolutely right.

David: Austin, by the way, that is a great book in and of itself. Everyone should read that book, not only for what you just mentioned, but for the whole sales philosophy of reframing the buyer’s problems in ways that they have not thought of before. 

Austin: Absolutely. Yes. Fantastic read. We’ll include the link in the show notes for those of you interested in reading it. 

Taylorr: Absolutely. Well, and then on that note, I mean, David, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I mean, we covered everything from ignorance and self-esteem and self-worth to the actual sales process. The mindset required how to solve problems and get those high fees. Thank you so much for being here and as you know, we’re all about creating value that’s why we had you on the show today. What are some things you’re working on right now that our listeners can benefit from and we can link to in the show notes? 

David: Sure, absolutely. So, a couple of things. One, we have a whole ton of free resources on the website, so doitmarketing.com. We also have a free training that’s out there now. It’s doitmarketing.com/webinar. And we also have our do it marketing manifesto, no big surprise, doitmarketing.ccom/manifesto, that’s a 37 page PDF with all kinds of sales and marketing and business development mindset, skillset, and tool set things in there. And we have a podcast, of course the speakingshow.com, but really everything is headquartered on the website, all kinds of freebies, downloads and goodies at doitmarketing.com. 

Taylorr: Awesome. Well, David, thank you so much again, it has really been awesome to have you. We will definitely have you on again. And for our listeners, don’t forget to subscribe to our show and if you want more awesome resources like this, go to the show notes, check out David’s site and don’t forget about speakerflow.com/resources. Already, and that is episode two, everybody, thank you so much for chiming in. I just wanted to take a second to thank our sponsor Auxbus. Auxbus is the all in one suite of tools you need to run your podcast and it’s actually what we run here at Speaker Flow for Technically Speaking.

It makes planning podcast simple; it makes recording podcasts simple; it even makes publishing podcasts to the masses simple and quite honestly, technically speaking, wouldn’t be up as soon as it is without Auxbus. Thank you so much Auxbus. And if you are interested in checking Auxbus out, whether you’re starting a podcast or you have one currently, get our special offer auxbus.com/speaker flow, or click the link below in our show notes

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